Question about the DV52 vs other models

jmascis

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Sorry if I'm bombarding the forum with this, but as mentioned in another thread, the DV52 I purchased got damaged.

I don't know a lot about Guilds, and was wondering if any new models are equal to the DV52? I'm afraid to go back into the used market after this experience and would consider a new one if the quality is as good.

What I like about the DV-52. Full tone, great fretboard -- the ebony felt great and was fast. What I didn't like: neck is a bit thin. So maybe a new model that has a full tone, great fretboard, and a thicker neck, all with the same high quality build. Does this exist? Thank you.
 

adorshki

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Sorry if I'm bombarding the forum with this, but as mentioned in another thread, the DV52 I purchased got damaged.

I don't know a lot about Guilds, and was wondering if any new models are equal to the DV52? I'm afraid to go back into the used market after this experience and would consider a new one if the quality is as good.

What I like about the DV-52. Full tone, great fretboard -- the ebony felt great and was fast. What I didn't like: neck is a bit thin. So maybe a new model that has a full tone, great fretboard, and a thicker neck, all with the same high quality build. Does this exist? Thank you.
For "bang for the buck", the short answer right now is "no" and I'd actually recommend giving the used market another chance after you get some more coaching on the tricks of the trade.
Richardp69, TXbumper, and a few others have a lot of successful experience in it.
Limiting my suggestions to US-built product because I can't in good conscience suggest any Chinese-built pieces compare to DV-52's:
They only make one rosewood bodied dread right now and are only just starting production as it is: the D55, which is somewhat of an upgrade from a DV52, for bling if nothing else, and which is sure to carry a price appropriate for a top-of-the line Guild.
The only benefit I can see to buying new right now is warranty, and "Honeymoon Moment" pride of owning a brand-new instrument.
But the new facility, Oxnard, is still an unknown quality proposition in many members' eyes, myself included.
SO:
If it's rosewood you're after, consider also the D50's from which DV52's were derived.
Also be aware that the "thin neck" seems to be most common in late Westerly guitars, and that's when the DV52 was introduced.
Necks at Westerly were individually hand finished on a belt or cone sander so there's variation from piece-to piece no matter what, even though they did attempt to stay close to a template.
If my memory's correct late '80's D50's might have a better chance of a thicker neck.
Also, my Corona D40's neck is thicker than my 2 late Westerlys by virtue of having a "C" profile as opposed to late my Westerlys' "modern flat oval" that's more like a D with the arch flattened. I suspect that's what your DV52 has.
Coronas get frequent reports of "chunky" necks, especially the electrics, and they made D50's there, too.
Coronas are also somewhat undervalued for reasons I won't go into now, just be aware that there are a lot of "refurbs" out there that have the headstock s/n's obliterated and a barcode sticker pasted over the label s/n.
While these can be great deals and some might even have been flawless when they were liquidated at close of Corona, they'd carry the same stigma at resale as a repaired guitar.
But I think the closest you'd get to a DV52, soundwise , at a comparable price point, will be a Tacoma built D50, where they introduced adi bracing as standard and even adi tops on the "Bluegrass Special" models, and lightened up the builds again, according to owner reports. (One of the elements of "DV" construction was sanded sides and backs for for better resonance).
AND: If rosewood isn't mandatory, Oxnard has been producing D40's for a few months now, but they're still kinda scarce and I can't recall any new owner reviews on 'em yet.
And you're sure to get recommendations for New Hartford-builts, too, where they also offered D40's and D50s with and without adi tops, but again, I think price-point is gonna be higher than most DV52's out there.
 
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Westerly Wood

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I would also suggest looking locally if possible on craigslist. Lots of Guilds out there that come up now and again even in a slow market like Tucson. Someone somewhere usually had a D25 or an uncle or relative that had one etc...
this way you do not have to deal with shipping and possible damage. I gave up on shipping and buying guitars not local to me years ago, just was not worth the stress. However, to Al's point, many here fair quite well on ebay and reverb, and thru the LTG's own FS/FT section.
 

jmascis

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Wow, thanks for that info. Looks like I have a lot of research to do. Now that I know what to look for, maybe I can look around on CL to test some out in-person.

Is the new D55 built as well as the DV52?

Ps. Oxnard is a few hours from me. I didn't realize they were building there.
 
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bluesypicky

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Is the new D55 built as well as the DV52?
Oh yeah. But..... if you're "sold" on the DV sound, don't lose your focus. As great a guitar as a D50 or 55 is, it won't sound like a DV52, and as mentioned earlier, there are quite a few out there, and the right one will eventually come about, if this one won't get repaired and stay with you.
Just my 2 cents, along with my sympathy for your unfortunate troubles.
 
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Rich Cohen

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Oh yeah. But..... if you're "sold" on the DV sound, don't lose your focus. As great a guitar as a D50 or 55 is, it won't sound like a DV52, and as mentioned earlier, there are quite a few out there, and the right one will eventually come about, if this one won't get repaired and stay with you.
Just my 2 cents, along with my sympathy for your unfortunate troubles.
I heartily agree with Bluesypicky. Like him, I had a DV-52 and got to greatly respect it, even over a New Hartford F-47MCE I had. Both are gone now. The only way I could let go of the DV-52, just like Bluesypicky, was to acquire a DV-72.
 

dreadnut

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When it was offered, the DV-52 was just a cut below the D-55 but a cut above the D-50. I believe the DV-52's upgrades from the D-50 were a AA spruce top, scalloped top bracing, herringbone back and bottom stripes, herringbone or abalone soundhole purfling, ebony bridge, ebony fingerboard, ebony headstock overlay.

I believe all of these features were then incorporated into the D-50's at some point. I played a Tacoma D-50 that was just like my DV-52, and it sounded like it too, one of the finest new Guilds I've ever played. So I'm thinking a Tacoma D-50 would be pretty much the same as a DV-52. I haven't played a New Hartford D-50 but I'm guessing they are much the same.
 

adorshki

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Is the new D55 built as well as the DV52?

I know Westerly wood said "Yeah" but I think the jury has to still be out, I don't think they've even shipped any yet, although they do a good job of promoting that fact that they're building 'em and put up videos of "inside the factory" on Facebook and Twitter.
I'm not on those so can't use 'em for reference.
But I'll take my cue from members like Richcohen and Bluesypicky who've got comparable instruments from the other places .
Also TXbumper, who's got a ton of experience with New Hartford and Corona stuff, and is skeptical of Oxnard's abilities right now.
If HE gives their D55 a thumbs up, that'll be good enough for me.

Ps. Oxnard is a few hours from me. I didn't realize they were building there.
Fender sold Guild to Cordoba Music Group in mid 2014.
Their creds were in building high-end classicals, and they built a dedicated steel flat-top assembly plant to keep the US-built line alive, so many of us hope the standards will be maintained if not exceeded.
But they only started actually shipping product about a year ago (IIRC), and the first models were entry-level M20 and M40, then flatback 'hog dreads D20 and D40.
They only just announced that D55's are finally being being built in about the last month, so I don't think any are actually available yet.
I recall one member mentioning a store in Santa Monica that's an authorized dealer that actually had stock to demo, so you might want to pursue that potential for brand new instruments.
Suspect Guild could tell you who it is if you can't ferret them out yourself, I just don't have time to search for the thread right now.
Very few brick and mortar dealers seem to be actually stocking the line so far, although they say they can place orders for you.
So yes, do some scouting to figure out where to go to actually get "hands-on" demos of new guitars.
Things should be moving along as you do.
 

txbumper57

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Just a few pieces of info and some models to look for in the used market that I find similar to the DV52.

Westerly made DV52's and the next model up DV62's are very similar in construction and materials. Fender bought Guild in 1995 and implemented a more strenuous Quality Control Program. This has led to many folks here on the forum to feel that the late Westerly builds from 1995-2001 were some of the best that Westerly ever produced. The 95 and up DV52 models normally have an Abalone Rosette which makes them easily Identifiable. The DV62 models had Herringbone binding and Rosettes. Both of these models can be found in Excellent condition for between $800-$1200 on any given day.

Corona Made D50/D55's were made from 2002-2004. These guitars pretty much carried on the same construction techniques of Westerly and have been known to be a bit on the heavy side as far as the build. Don't let that fool you as both are excellent Sitka and East Indian Rosewood Dreads. The D50 in Corona had an Ebony Fingerboard and inherited some of the DV52's construction if I remember correctly. I have have seen D50's from Corona in Excellent condition regularly selling for between $750-$1000 and D55's selling for anywhere from $1200-$1500.

Tacoma Made Guilds were the start of the lighter builds and changed internal construction. They were made form 2005-2008. The early 2005 models still had the same construction as the Corona models from what I have seen but somewhere between late 2005 and early 2006 the lighter builds with scalloped Adirondack Spruce bracing began showing up. Also around that time the D50 Bluegrass was introduced that had different specs from a normal D50. These guitars had Scalloped Adirondack Spruce Bracing with Beautiful Adirondack Spruce tops. Other features included Tortoise shell binding along the body and neck as well as a Tortoise shell heel cap. This was also the time that Bone compensated saddles and string nuts were made standard. The factory introduced the DTAR Lock n' Load 18V pickup system that is identifiable by the large wheel attached at the end pin to change the batteries out. These were strictly under saddle only units but the 18 volt preamp helped eliminate the "Quack" often associated with 9 volt piezo pickups when strummed very aggressively. D55's got the Adirondack bracing as well but retained the Sitka Spruce tops. D50 Bluegrass Models can be found on the Used market in Excellent condition for between $1000-$1200 while the D55's normally go for $1500 and up.

New Hartford models were made from 2009-2014 and pretty much perfected the build changes that Tacoma introduced. They also implemented the use of a lighter Open Back Gotoh 700 series tuner in New Hartford as well. The Standard factory DTAR unit was upgraded to the DTAR Multisource Wavelength pickup which got rid of the large battery compartment on the end pin. The pickup is still an 18 volt model with the batteries mounted inside the guitar. There is also a Condenser Mic mounted on the internal Soundhole controls that let you blend the sound of the UST and the Mic for an amazingly accurate representation of the Guitars Natural Acoustic tone. Along with the D55 and the D50 Bluegrass, New Hartford introduced a "Standard" line of guitars which included a D50 Standard. It had the same internal Adirondack bracing and construction as the other "Traditional" guild models but had a RW fingerboard and Bridge with a Solid Sitka top and EIR back and sides. These guitars were finished in Gloss Nitro for the early models with a Satin nitro neck and later models have a Gloss Nitro top with Satin Nitro Back, Sides, and Neck. These guitars were designed as the working musician's instrument to provide similar tone to the more expensive models at a more affordable price. New Hartford D50 Bluegrass models can be found used in Excellent condition for between $1000-$1400. The D50 Standard model normally sells used for between $800-$1200. The D55's from New Hartford in Excellent used shape sell for between $1600-$2200 and can sell as high as $2500 and up for NOS models that are still new. If you buy a Still New Guild from a shop and they are currently an authorized Guild dealer There is a good chance you can still get a Full Factory Warranty form Cordoba.

I know there is a lot of mention of Adirondack spruce versus Sitka spruce so I will list just a few differences of the two. Sitka is known more for it's warmth of tone that Adirondack is and it is also heavier than Adirondack. Adirondack is stiffer than Sitka which means you can use thinner pieces for the same strength. Adirondack is also very tight sounding when new and can take longer to "Break In" than Sitka. While Sitka is know for it's warmth it can get muddy sounding when played very aggressively. The limit before the tone gets muddy is called the ceiling. Adirondack due to it's stiffness has a much more punchy tone to it with an extremely high ceiling when compared to Sitka. This means that notes stay clear when you are really pushing the guitar. Adirondack is also known for it's high volume ability making it a favorite among straight acoustic and Bluegrass players a like.

Quick rundown of models listed to search for.

Westerly= 90's DV52, DV62.
Corona = D50, D55.
Tacoma= D50 Bluegrass, D55
New Hartford= D50 Bluegrass, D50 Standard, D55

I know all of this info has most likely been posted earlier in the thread but I just figured I would touch base on all of this for reference. Best of luck!

TX
 
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jmascis

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Man, that's great into. Thank you for writing that all out and giving me leads.

The posts above it are great as well -- thanks to adorshki, et al.
 

dreadnut

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Good info tx - I forgot about the tortoise shell on the Tacoma D-50BS, that was sweet. Boy I'd love to have one of those. They listed at about $1,500 at Elderly Instruments at the time.
 

adorshki

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Fender bought Guild in 1995 and implemented a more strenuous Quality Control Program. This has led to many folks here on the forum to feel that the late Westerly builds from 1995-2001 were some of the best that Westerly ever produced.
To put a fine point on it, since Fender didn't acquire 'em until November of '95, it's pretty unlikely their implementation of more stringent QC methods affected '95 models.
In any case, Hideglue, who was the guy who originally said here that "Guild QC reached a zenith under Fender", later took pains to explain that what he meant was that the guitars weren't necessarily any better, construction methods and materials didn't undergo any significant changes, it was simply that Fender instituted a checklist to ensure that every QC step was performed on every guitar.
So a higher percentage of perfect guitars got out the door.
But yeah my '96 or maybe '97 (when I actually bought it, and it's got Halloween '96 stamped on the heelblock) D25 had me sold when I joined up, and I jumped on the "late Westerly fan" bandwagon right away.
 

gjmalcyon

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Quick rundown of models listed to search for.

Westerly= 90's DV52, DV62.
Corona = D50, D55.
Tacoma= D50 Bluegrass, D55
New Hartford= D50 Bluegrass, D50 Standard, D55

TX

I would only add one thing to Tx's excellent write up: To the Tacoma list of rosewood dreadnoughts, I'd add the DV-6. I have one and it is a wonder. Be careful - that model designation was also used on mahogany dreadnoughts from Westerly (outstanding guitars in their own right), and later on Ensenada, Mexico-built versions that may not be equal to the Tacoma-built versions.

They seem to fall into the $600 to $800 range, and if one pops up near you, go play it.
 
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I'm so sorry to hear about your damaged Guild DV52. It's sort of an acoustic guitar that is hard to replace because the only thing to my ears that sounds like a DV52 is a DV52. Like many other stated above I too would give the used market another try. Guilds don't bring "top dollar" prices like other manufacturers which is to your advantage. The tough thing is finding one that hasn't been messed with. A clean example is what I would look for.
 
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