F20 Fretboard radius?

swiveltung

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Anyone know what the fretboard radius is on the F20's? 60's and/or 70's..?
 

Quantum Strummer

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My F-20's radius feels 10" or so, though I've never measured it. It' a '62. I imagine they vary a bit…

-Dave-
 

adorshki

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Just measured my '71, it's 16" radius.

Wow that's flat. I do recall a reported 15" radius on an early electric a while back, and it wouldn't surprise me if it varied with nut width, either.
Late Westerly (ca '96 on) was supposed to be standardized at 12".
 

mavuser

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i have 2 they are flat 16-20 zone id guess though ive never measured. one is a 1970, the other a 76
 

swiveltung

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Wow that's flat. I do recall a reported 15" radius on an early electric a while back, and it wouldn't surprise me if it varied with nut width, either.
Late Westerly (ca '96 on) was supposed to be standardized at 12".
It could be 15", had trouble deciding between the two. For some reason I thought Guilds were mostly 12"
 

adorshki

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It could be 15", had trouble deciding between the two. For some reason I thought Guilds were mostly 12"
Prior to at least '96 they were varied, so I wasn't questioning your measurement which seems to be confirmed by mavuser.
But yes the "formal announcement" of a standardized 12" radius was in the '97 Guild Gallery/catalog and that's the only time I ever saw a published spec from them, and not that I've seen a great deal of their literature either.
The reports of "flat" radii whether electric or acoustic seem to predominate in late '50's to early-to-mid '60s.
I'm remembering now the other unknown is whether any of those were "re-profiled" by an owner at some point.
Could fairly easily be done in conjunction with a re-fret.
 

Neal

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I have not measured my '71 Westerly, but I was just playing it and did not notice any appreciable difference in the feel Orf the fretboard compared to my other Guilds.
 

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I'm not sure how to measure radius (I don't have the tools). But I will say that the nut is only 40 mm (1.575") wide on my 1956 NYC made Guild F-20. Also, the feel of the neck is sort of on the chunky side. I had a Guild GAD M-20 (from 2008 or so made in China) that had a much slimmer profile neck, even though the nut width was I think 1.68". Not sure if this relates to radius at all, but does relate to the feel of the neck.
 

swiveltung

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I have not measured my '71 Westerly, but I was just playing it and did not notice any appreciable difference in the feel Orf the fretboard compared to my other Guilds.

They weren't Westerly in 71 were they?
Later: Well on line info says '67 so I guess they were. That surprises me. That means my '71 F20 is Westerly I guess, no sticker inside though. Also means my '69 Bluesbird was.... which really surprises me.
 
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Christopher Cozad

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Prior to at least '96 they were varied, so I wasn't questioning your measurement which seems to be confirmed by mavuser.
But yes the "formal announcement" of a standardized 12" radius was in the '97 Guild Gallery/catalog and that's the only time I ever saw a published spec from them, and not that I've seen a great deal of their literature either.
The reports of "flat" radii whether electric or acoustic seem to predominate in late '50's to early-to-mid '60s.
I'm remembering now the other unknown is whether any of those were "re-profiled" by an owner at some point.
Could fairly easily be done in conjunction with a re-fret.

What Al said.

Guild fretboards (acoustic) were spec'd at a 12" radius, from the earliest records. As a point of reference, a Fender Telecaster has a 7.25" radius (which is considered a "tight" radius), a Taylor acoustic has a 15" radius, and a Martin has a 16" radius. A truly "flat" radius may exist on a nylon string classical guitar (though many builders have begun to introduce some curvature to the fretboards in recent years). Many fingerstyle-specific guitars are built with a ("flatter") 20" radius.

To visualize a fretboard radius, draw a circle (using a string a nail, string, and pencil) with the radius (length of the string) being the given numerical value in inches (7.25, 9.5, 12, 15, 16, 20, etc.). The arc along the circumference (outer edge) of the resultant circle is what we are referring to when we say "fretboard radius".

Chording, where multiple strings are depressed simultaneously, benefits from a tighter (smaller number) radius. Many players, notably acoustic-only players, will pick up an electric guitar for the first time and say, 'My, this is easy to play'. Impressively-low string height is only one factor in that equation. The other is the often overlooked fingerboard radius. If you are a strummer, a chord-only player, you will benefit from a tighter fretboard radius.

I realize that this may come as a surprise to many players, but you can alter your fingerboard radius to suit your needs. There is no law that prohibits it (at least, not yet).

Playing individual notes such as are common in Bluegrass and electric solos, so many classical pieces, and most so-called fingerstyle instrumentals, all benefit mechanically from a flatter (higher number) radius. Classical/ Flamenco guitars were traditionally flat, having no radius, whatsoever. The flatter the fingerboard, the "faster" the playability.

Consider the "compound radius" fingerboard, where a tighter radius is used at the 1st fret and graduates to a flatter radius at the 12th or higher fret. This approach requires some skill and finesse to achieve, but provides the best of both worlds.

All things considered, it is a relatively trivial matter to alter the radius during a re-fret. As always, I encourage experimentation. You may discover what have always been looking for.

EDIT: If you *do* alter your fingerboard radius, it is imperative that you alter the radius of your saddle, to match (if you do not, you will have to deal with wonky string action and likely fret buzz).
 
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Quantum Strummer

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Teiscos tend to have very flat fretboards (16"+) but my fav was refretted by its previous owner with taller & wider frets bevelled to a radius of around 12". I replaced the original straight bar bridge with a 12"er…plays very nicely now.

-Dave-
 

adorshki

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They weren't Westerly in 71 were they?
Later: Well on line info says '67 so I guess they were. That surprises me. That means my '71 F20 is Westerly I guess, no sticker inside though. Also means my '69 Bluesbird was.... which really surprises me.
Actually that one's the most likely to have possibly been built or at least started in Hoboken since electric production left last, and the closest timing of Hoboken closure is Hans's statement that "by 1969" everything had been relocated to Westerly.
Doesn't say "beginning of", or "end of", and that may be as close as he was able to pin it down himself.
Somewhere I recall reading that Hoboken was still used for repairs and storage during Westerly's first couple of years, and it might even be possible that pieces started in Hoboken (like a Bluesbird body nad neck) were actually completed in Westerly, don't know for sure.
Hans might actually have a completion record for your instrument from the s/n, though.
 
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