Newark Street Guitars - A Discussion

GAD

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I have owned three or four Newark Street guitars, and as I'm sure you're aware, far too many Westely guitars. I've played many NS Guilds at shops as well.

After reading DrumBob's mention of the NS Bluesbird, it made me realize something.

Every NS guitar I've played has been good. Some are almost great. They are definitely orders of magnitude better than any import guitar I ever played in the '70s and '80s. But to my mind/fingers/ears, they're all missing something. I can't articulate what it is, but I'll play that card and call it mojo.

I have never picked up a NS Guild and thought "I have GOT to have this!" That has happened many times with Westerly Guilds, though. It's happened with Corona Guilds. Never with a NS.

My gut says that they're imitations of the real thing. They're not cheap imitations or they would suck outright and they do not, but they're also not quite there. That leads me to wonder: why? What's missing to make me feel the difference?
 

bobouz

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I own five Westerlys & one NS.

For me, it's just a matter of knowing that the NS is not something rare, and is easily replaceable.

On the other hand, each of my Westerly instruments seems unique & special to a certain degree, and of course is no longer being made. With a Westerly, it's much more realistic to think: "I'd better buy this right now, because I may not come across another one this good for years, if ever!"
 

dreadnut

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Haven't had the opportunity to play a Newark St. guitar so I have no comment on them.

I do however own a Korean-made DeArmond Starfire Special, and it is a delightful guitar. I remember playing it for about an hour at the music store, and I just had to have it. One thing that impressed me is that it sounded great not even plugged in!

Also, the finish and workmanship are flawless. I'm thinking the NS guitars may be built by the same folks in Korea that did the DeArmonds? Maybe someone more knowledgeable on this could comment. I do know that both the materials and quality were diminished when they moved production to Indonesia.
 

Default

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I own a NS M-75 and a DeArmond M75-T.

To me, the NS is superior and not in a subtle way. The fit and finish is better, and not nearly as think and plasticky. I briefly had a NH M75, and that was better than either, but there were issues with it that l could not accept at that pricepoint.
I think the poly finish and the hardware holds the NS stuff back.
 

fronobulax

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When I close my eyes the difference between my '67 Starfire I and the Newark Street Starfire I is tone. (The PU position is an obvious difference but having played a '66 I am confident that I can make the same statement with as much authority as I can muster). They play the same to me and feel the same. But because of the tone difference, they don't scratch the same itch for me. My recollection is that the original NS marketing take was "inspired by" rather than "re-creation of" and I think that explains it. They are not intended to compete directly.

By analogy, I am reminded of pizza. I really like some frozen pizzas. I will happily eat as much as I can and walk away contented. But sometimes I just have to have a fresh pizza - with all the extra goodness that implies - and then the frozen pizza is not a acceptable replacement. If cost and availability were not factors, I'd never eat frozen pizza. But they are factors so I eat both.

For those who remember the SAT

frozen pizza : restaurant pizza :: Newark Street guitars : similar vintage guitars
 

crank

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I don't own any electric Guilds. I have a Korean made Epiphone Sorento, which is a single cutaway, hollow body with dog eared P9 pups. Have had it for 20 years and it plays great, sounds great and is very well made. I have never even had it set up!
 

dreadnut

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Default, I'm curious if your DeArmond M-75T was made in Korea or Indonesia?
 

Default

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Default, I'm curious if your DeArmond M-75T was made in Korea or Indonesia?

It's a Korean guitar. My understanding, just from my personal observation of eBay and craigslist, is that all the Korean guitars are setneck, and all the Indonesian guitars are bolted on necks.

I don't hold its origin against it, I just think that manufacturing has gotten better over there.
 
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Quantum Strummer

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My experience with guitars in general is that knowing what it is has a big impact on how it sounds and feels. Which is to say, we hear and feel with other detectors besides our ears and hands. :)

-Dave-
 

JohnW63

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I don't have a direct comparison pair to set against each other. My US Guild electric is a SF IV and my off shore one(s) are X-175 models. Other than the tuning machines on the SF feeling smoother, and perhaps the toggle switch feeling cheaper on the NS , there is little I could say that would make me think the NS guitars were sub par. The problem is, I KNOW which ones are NS models. No way to do a double blind test. If I had a NS SF IV and the wife could swap them to me, with my eyes closed, maybe I could tell.
 

Walter Broes

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I have a NS X175, and have owned another one before that. (circumstances made me sell the first one, got the one I have now a little later)

My Hoboken X175's are my favorite guitars, period. I don't think it would be reasonable to expect a Korean made guitar that's definitely made to a price point to be as sweet sounding as my well-seasoned 55-year old guitars.

That said, the NS guitar is awful nice for a $1000 hollowbody, and it's impressive how much effort went into really getting the body/neck shapes, dimensions, pickups, etc.... as close to the Hoboken guitars as they are.

I'm also very happy to have a guitar that does 70% of what my oldies do that I don't worry about schlepping around in a gigbag. I won't shed a single tear if it gets stolen, if the headstock breaks off, or if an airline destroys or loses it.

It plays great, I like the big frets, it stays in tune, seems pretty stable so far, it looks great, and I don't think 99.9% of the audience would hear any difference with my vintage X175's.

The negative side :

- I didn't like the pickups much. Even though they're physically very impressive clones of the Franz pickups I know and love, they're a good deal hotter than the late 50's/early 60's Franz pickups I'm very familiar with. In the first NS175 I had, I had the pickups rewound to a lower resistance reading and I was a lot happier with them, the one I have now has a pair of vintage Franz pickups.

-There's a brittle hardness to the sound of the guitar, unplugged as well as plugged in that gets grating after a while, in a "listener's (player's?) fatigue" kind of way. My band's average rehearsal is about three, four hours, and by the last hour I usually start hating the guitar a little, or I really start missing my vintage ones.

There's a definite lack of sweetness in the upper mids and treble, making for some ugliness that's not very musical to my ears. I can't put my finger on what could cause that. But in all fairness I hear the same thing in a LOT of brand new guitars, especially Korean and Chinese made ones - meaning "guitars built to a low/low-ish price point. I hear some of the same thing in the Japanese-made "pro series" Gretsch guitars, and those are not cheap at all.

Maybe I've been spoiled by twenty years of vintage X175 - most if not all the vintage guitars (and amps!) I've played sound sweeter in the mids and trebles, mellower and more musical, and age almost certainly has at least something to do with that. Who knows, maybe I'd absolutely love a 55 year old NS X175 that's had the snot played out of it. I won't live to tell.
 

dbirchett

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...

Also, the finish and workmanship are flawless. I'm thinking the NS guitars may be built by the same folks in Korea that did the DeArmonds? Maybe someone more knowledgeable on this could comment. I do know that both the materials and quality were diminished when they moved production to Indonesia.

We just went through an extended discussion on this. http://letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?192994-Which-factory-is-making-NS-guitars The DeArmonds were made by Cort while the Newark street hollow bodies and semi-hollows (Including the Starfire III that would be the closest to your Starfire Special) are made by SPG, a company started by former Samick workers when Samick shifted production to Indonesia. Solid body and chambered guitars such as the Bluesbird are made by WMI.
 

Quantum Strummer

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I do think sheer age and playing miles have a lot to do with why some guitars feel and sound like comfy, broken-in leather boots while others are like stiff new ones. I've picked up a bunch of mid '70s thru early '83 Ibanez guitars this year, all of 'em in fine cosmetic and structural condition but clearly played. Build quality, fit and finish are as good as it gets. And I've yet to come across one that doesn't play and sound great once tweaked into shape (prefered string gauge, neck relief, bridge height, etc.). I could kick myself for ignoring these gems over the past 30+ years. I'd just assumed they were second tier stuff. Wrong-o! OTOH there's that aging thing, and I suspect I'm benefiting now from it.

My Aristocrat and T-bird both still have a new guitar vibe. 'Cuz they are new. Though the T-bird in particular is feeling more broken in after a year of frequent play. Even my Relic Nocaster felt and sounded new to me back in '96 despite the antiquing process. Played back-to-back with my genuine old Tele the Relic's newness was blatant. Nowadays, though, it's got some real wear in some of my favorite neck/fretboard spots, the wood has done a lot of vibrating and it's generally got used to being a guitar. So it hangs with its older sibling much better.

-Dave-
 
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dreadnut

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Thanks for the reminder thread, Don. I just re-read it and saw where the Serial number prefix "KC" stands for "Korea Cort."
 

SFIV1967

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My understanding, just from my personal observation of eBay and craigslist, is that all the Korean guitars are setneck, and all the Indonesian guitars are bolted on necks.
I just re-read it and saw where the Serial number prefix "KC" stands for "Korea Cort."
Yes, and a IC serial number stands for Indonesia Cort. Like the bolted on neck DeArmond S-65: https://www.sheltonsguitars.com/2008/10-07-08/dearmond-s-65-10-07-08.html


Ralf
 
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