I bought a DV-52

jmascis

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No problem Binod30, I just try to share my experiences from over the years. Hopefully it will help someone else in some way, shape, or form. That is one of the things I love the most about this forum, Everybody shares their knowledge and experience to ultimately help one another. Not to make a decision for them, But to possibly give them more info so they can make a more informed decision for themselves as each of us is different and there really is no right or wrong.

If you think about the mediums 1/2 step down as opposed to the lights at standard tuning, The mediums are running the same tension on the top or in this case just a few more pounds at 1/2 step down as the lights are at Standard tuning. That means you are still transferring the same amount tension to the top to produce the tone. The difference with the mediums 1/2 step down is that the material you are using to transfer those vibrations (ie. the strings) actually has more mass than the lights do, which transfers more energy resulting in more tonal output at the same or similar string tension.

TX

Precisely.
Many players tune Eb for this reason. It's more common on electrics.

If you want to read a really interesting article, check this out on Hendrix's gauges: http://www.guitarworld.com/features...rixs-guitar-setup-interview-roger-mayer/11678

He felt the standard sets were "too G heavy"...kinda agree, yet on acoustic guitars a light gauge G sounds notably bad. It's interesting how low the gauges were on his bass strings.
 
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Westerly Wood

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If you think about the mediums 1/2 step down as opposed to the lights at standard tuning, The mediums are running the same tension on the top or in this case just a few more pounds at 1/2 step down as the lights are at Standard tuning. That means you are still transferring the same amount tension to the top to produce the tone. The difference with the mediums 1/2 step down is that the material you are using to transfer those vibrations (ie. the strings) actually has more mass than the lights do, which transfers more energy resulting in more tonal output at the same or similar string tension.

TX

Tx, I used to do this with the D25, sounded so killer with mediums 1/2 step down. Alas, my fingerpads just couldnt handle the harder cable like feel and I had to return to lights. Today I am at custom light gauge, .11.-.52, no pain and I still get a good tone and volume. Still, I miss the old days :) But the goal for me is to keep playing man...maybe I just need an easier playing guild, hmmmm.
 

adorshki

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When I was in the local shop testing Martins, all the strings sounded pretty good with lights except the G string. It sounded way too thin. I think it was .24. A .26 from a medium set would sound so much better.
Right, that's why when I discovered the L350's had an .025 "G" I said to myself, "Aha! They get it!!"
The problem now is that even though D'A offers that .025 as a single, it's hard to find one in retail and the price is ridiculous on the 'net.
On Guilds, where I live in CA, a neck reset costs 1k to 1.2k, if you can find a luthier even willing to do it, because of how they make the neck joints. It's the one and only knock on Guild I've ever heard about from the luthiers around here whom I trust. My luthier does own one and loves it, but he said specifically to be anal about the neck angle, and if you find a good one to keep it that way, because they are not easy to work on. He actually rejects all Guilds (and Gibsons) at this point in his career (he's old) because of how hard a job those two are.
We've discussed the reasons for that before, and while it's justified in some cases, it's not a universal problem.
Unfortunately the rep that was established when it was a bigger problem persists.
I'd actually expect a later DV-52 to be easily done.
Have seen at least a couple of reset threads where neck came off of a D25 with no problem.
For one thing, they stopped simply re-filling the hide-glue jar that was contaminated with metal shavings, no joke.
Another problem was when the neck and end block woods had different rates of expansion, have seen that on '80's 12-ers.
But those had specially selected necks, and yes the backs and sides were sanded down for better resonance.
 

jmascis

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Right, that's why when I discovered the L350's had an .025 "G" I said to myself, "Aha! They get it!!"
The problem now is that even though D'A offers that .025 as a single, it's hard to find one in retail and the price is ridiculous on the 'net.

We've discussed the reasons for that before, and while it's justified in some cases, it's not a universal problem.
Unfortunately the rep that was established when it was a bigger problem persists.
I'd actually expect a later DV-52 to be easily done.
Have seen at least a couple of reset threads where neck came off of a D25 with no problem.
For one thing, they stopped simply re-filling the hide-glue jar that was contaminated with metal shavings, no joke.
Another problem was when the neck and end block woods had different rates of expansion, have seen that on '80's 12-ers.
But those had specially selected necks, and yes the backs and sides were sanded down for better resonance.

Thanks for the neck info. I see you are in CA as well. Do you know anyone in State who does resets for a reasonable price? If so, maybe pm me! Thanks.
 

adorshki

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Thanks for the neck info. I see you are in CA as well. Do you know anyone in State who does resets for a reasonable price? If so, maybe pm me! Thanks.
I've been fortunate enough not to have to worry about it, but I've also heard it's a little less expensive in southern CA, we thought maybe because more luthiers are there to cater to the music industry.
I'd prefer not to have to ship a guitar, either, but there's a "gotcha" when it comes to the finish touch-up that will be needed fro a complete job, it's a limited capability due to our environmental regs.
The guy who did the last refret on my D25 did excellent work, but don't know what his take is on resets:
Keith Holland's Guitar Hospital if you're in south Bay Area (San Jose-Los Gatos).
Another member JCWu vouches for his quality, too.
Gryphon's also got a stellar rep (it's Frank Ford's place) but last I heard it's got a years long waiting list.
One of our members mentioned somebody in north SF Bay Area but can't recall who it was, now.
If you don't mind shipping, forum member Fixit runs Jacobs Custom Guitars in Florida and several members swear by him.
He actually worked at Guild in late '70's.
 

binod30

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No problem Binod30, I just try to share my experiences from over the years. Hopefully it will help someone else in some way, shape, or form. That is one of the things I love the most about this forum, Everybody shares their knowledge and experience to ultimately help one another. Not to make a decision for them, But to possibly give them more info so they can make a more informed decision for themselves as each of us is different and there really is no right or wrong.

If you think about the mediums 1/2 step down as opposed to the lights at standard tuning, The mediums are running the same tension on the top or in this case just a few more pounds at 1/2 step down as the lights are at Standard tuning. That means you are still transferring the same amount tension to the top to produce the tone. The difference with the mediums 1/2 step down is that the material you are using to transfer those vibrations (ie. the strings) actually has more mass than the lights do, which transfers more energy resulting in more tonal output at the same or similar string tension.

TX

Txbumper57:

Again, very useful information. However, this prompts a question. What is the comparison of doing string bends with the mediums tuned down 1/2 step compared to only using lights? Just curious, and I realize that you may not have an answer. I was also thinking about short scale, about 24.9, and regular scale of 25.5 inches. Eric Clapton uses the OOO28EC instead of the OM28. The explanation being, supposedly, that thee OOO, with the shorter scale, is actually like having one less threat on the guitar. Why would this matter? Bending the strings are easier? Your insights?

Thanks.
 

binod30

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I recently tried a set of Martin Silk & Steels on my DV-52...OK, that experiment is hereby over! Easy to play but hard to hear, I don't even care for the sound when it's plugged into my amp.

Dreadnut:

I have not ever used these strings. But, I do not know if it is a fair comparison with the Martin MFX740 Light strings. (And I do not know if this was even your intention.) However, my D40 absolutely love these strings. My D30 is pretty comfy with them, too, just not quite as much as the 1977 D40 Sunburst.

Take care.
 

txbumper57

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Txbumper57:

Again, very useful information. However, this prompts a question. What is the comparison of doing string bends with the mediums tuned down 1/2 step compared to only using lights? Just curious, and I realize that you may not have an answer. I was also thinking about short scale, about 24.9, and regular scale of 25.5 inches. Eric Clapton uses the OOO28EC instead of the OM28. The explanation being, supposedly, that thee OOO, with the shorter scale, is actually like having one less threat on the guitar. Why would this matter? Bending the strings are easier? Your insights?

Thanks.

Great Questions Binod30! Personally I find it takes relatively the same force to bend the mediums 1/2 step down as it does to bend lights at standard tuning. The only difference I really feel is that there is more of the medium string to grab on to than the lights but that is just my preference, I'm sure others may like the feel of the lights and so on.

As far as the scale length question is concerned, The rule of thumb is The longer the scale, the more tension a string has to be under to make the proper pitch. For example, If you have 2 guitars with the same size strings on them but one guitar has the long 25.5" scale and one has the shorter 24.75" scale length, The guitar with the 25.5" scale length takes more tension to reach standard tuning than the 24.75" scale guitar does. They are both tuned to Standard but the same size strings are under less tension on the shorter scale guitar. Most Guild and Gibson Electrics are the shorter 24.75" scale length while Favorites like the Fender Strat and Tele are 25.5" scale length.

Eric Clapton can play any guitar on the planet but he is known for Electric more than Acoustic. The shorter scale on his acoustic model allows the guitar to have less tension on the strings when tuned which makes for easier bending and closer to the feel of an electric. I have both 25 5/8" scale Acoustics (Standard Guild Scale length) and 24.75" scale acoustics (Found on some Guild F20's, F30's, and other Guilds like the Orpheum 12 fret slope of recent years) and you can really tell the difference in string tension on the shorter scale models.

Hope this helps and have a good one!

TX
 

jmascis

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Great Questions Binod30! Personally I find it takes relatively the same force to bend the mediums 1/2 step down as it does to bend lights at standard tuning. The only difference I really feel is that there is more of the medium string to grab on to than the lights but that is just my preference, I'm sure others may like the feel of the lights and so on.

As far as the scale length question is concerned, The rule of thumb is The longer the scale, the more tension a string has to be under to make the proper pitch. For example, If you have 2 guitars with the same size strings on them but one guitar has the long 25.5" scale and one has the shorter 24.75" scale length, The guitar with the 25.5" scale length takes more tension to reach standard tuning than the 24.75" scale guitar does. They are both tuned to Standard but the same size strings are under less tension on the shorter scale guitar. Most Guild and Gibson Electrics are the shorter 24.75" scale length while Favorites like the Fender Strat and Tele are 25.5" scale length.

Eric Clapton can play any guitar on the planet but he is known for Electric more than Acoustic. The shorter scale on his acoustic model allows the guitar to have less tension on the strings when tuned which makes for easier bending and closer to the feel of an electric. I have both 25 5/8" scale Acoustics (Standard Guild Scale length) and 24.75" scale acoustics (Found on some Guild F20's, F30's, and other Guilds like the Orpheum 12 fret slope of recent years) and you can really tell the difference in string tension on the shorter scale models.

Hope this helps and have a good one!

TX

I agree with this.
Another anecdote: I have a Gretsch Duo Jet, which is a much shorter scale than my other electric (Jazzmaster). I have .10s on each, but the .10s on the Gretsch feel more like 9s due to the shorter scale. However, I prefer bends on the Jazzmaster because it has tall/narrow frets vs vintage frets on the Gretsch, and that makes for easier bends. The Bigsby and bar bridge on the Gretsch also seem to want to fight bending. I'm not sure if that's true, but it feels that way. So to me at least, there's more to it than just the gauge.

My current Yahama acoustic is 24.75 I believe, so I'm a bit concerned what the Guild will feel like. I do like bends and finger picking on acoustic, and I play a lot of long "reach" chords (i.e. 5+ frets with the pinky), so hopefully the longer scale length doesn't fight me on those. My Yahama is so hard to play that I think just having a good guitar will offset any of that.
 

adorshki

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so I'm a bit concerned what the Guild will feel like. I do like bends and finger picking on acoustic, and I play a lot of long "reach" chords (i.e. 5+ frets with the pinky), so hopefully the longer scale length doesn't fight me on those.
Not that I had a whole lot of experience with different guitars, but the D25 was a revelation to me. I bought it primarily because of the playability.
I've occasionally wondered if it might have somehow got one of the "DV" necks because of its stability (they were selected for strength) and shallow profile, it has what Fender calls a modern flat oval.
I like to play at A440 so there's no question of using mediums 1/2 step down for me.
Finger picking is a dream.
The "stretch" chords are more difficult on the first 3 frets. After that the difference from a short scale isn't as great.
Also if it's got the full factory action height and geometry, lowering it a bit won't hurt.
Lots of folks think the factory set-up's too high as it is.
 
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Neal

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The downsides of a short scale guitar are that drop tunings get a little sloppy, and the guitar loses a little bit of volume sustain due to lower string tension.
 

dreadnut

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Hi binod, I'm guessing the silk & steels are even lighter than the lights, and made from different materials too. They're very stretchy.
 

jmascis

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I'm somewhat devastated. The package was due to arrive today, and yet it still says it is in GA. I am in CA. I called UPS, and they said it's "likely lost"...............WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

geoguy

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Don't panic . . . yet.

UPS doesn't have the best package tracking, though it is better than USPS in my experience.
 

jmascis

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Don't panic . . . yet.

UPS doesn't have the best package tracking, though it is better than USPS in my experience.

Thanks. I really hope it's okay. I talked to the seller, and he is going to get on them in the AM.
 

jmascis

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We talked with UPS today. The status is "we're attempting to verify the package location. / Lost package investigation".
I really hope one of their workers didn't swipe it. Has anyone had experience with this, and was the package ever found?
 

jmascis

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Thanks, Dread. I hope so. It's so disappointing. Thought it was "new guitar day" and fixed a cocktail to celebrate and play it, yet it never arrived. Now they said it could be up to 8 days to find it, if they find it at all. It's just a real bummer b/c that one looked in very nice condition. I'm not even sure I'd be able to find one as good at that price if they lost it.
 

jmascis

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Status just changed to Due to arrive Monday, end of day!
I think they found it!
 
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