I bought a DV-52

JohnW63

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I am always flabbergasted when they LOOSE a box as big as a guitar case. The only thing I can think of is the bar code on a label gets a scuff on it, and they can't scan it. Then it sits, because no one knows how to READ the rest of the label and look up the shipping info on the system.

When it arrives, see if you can see if the label is clean.
 

jmascis

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I am always flabbergasted when they LOOSE a box as big as a guitar case. The only thing I can think of is the bar code on a label gets a scuff on it, and they can't scan it. Then it sits, because no one knows how to READ the rest of the label and look up the shipping info on the system.

When it arrives, see if you can see if the label is clean.

I agree, and I will let you know if the label is good.
 

dreadnut

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Tried to have my F-512 shipped directly to my work address so Mrs. Dread wouldn't get to it first; I wanted to kinda ease it into the collection if you know what I mean. Couple days later, I get home and there's the box setting on my front porch. "What's in the box?" says she. "Kinda looks like a guitar box!" says my son. Big help.

Seller "did me a favor" and shipped it to my home address instead. Then I had some 'splainin' to do, lol. In fact, Mrs. Dread was quite enamored with the sound, after I tuned it up to pitch she sat and listened to me play it for an hour!
 

GuildFS4612CE

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Sometimes there are old bar codes/labels left on boxes being repurposed and the wrong code gets scanned.
 

dreadnut

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All I know is they didn't follow my explicit directions!
 

jmascis

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Hey guys, I received the guitar. It sounds really good, but there are cracks in it. Near the sound-hole and in the binding right by the heal. I'm not sure if they show up well in these photos. They look worse in-person.

http://imgur.com/a/6K4BT

The UPS box was a mess (the guy noted it in his system in case there was damage). How serious are these cracks? The pattern of the cracks made me think something heavy was on top of the guitar. Just wondering what you guys think. I'm thinking I should return it due to these cracks...

I wrote the seller to inform him of this. I'm not sure if it was like this and he didn't notice, or if UPS did this. Given the condition of the box, and that it was lost for days, I would guess UPS.
 
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GardMan

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The first pic (of the back) just shows the joint where the binding strips from the two sides of the back meet. It's not a defect or problem that I can see.

The second and third pics show cracks along the fingerboard to the sound hole. I don't think these cracks were caused by something being set on top of the guitar during shipping. Cracks like these can be caused by the neck block slipping if the car is left in a hot car... allowing the guitar to "fold in" on itself. Fortunately, they don't look too bad... the one in pic #2 shows little or no displacement. There's a small amount of displacement showing in the third pic... definitely something that should be taken care of.

Clearly, if present before the sale, these cracks should have been disclosed by the seller... Did the seller send you any good views of the neck/body joint where these cracks are? The ad you posted only showed views of the whole guitar, and don't show sufficient detail to see these cracks... but if he sent you other pics, they might be visible.

I would recommend that you have this looked at by a competent tech... and get an estimate for a fix that will stabilize the guitar. Then, you will need to make a decision... Do I return the guitar? Do I ask the seller to cover all or part of the repair?

Good luck!
 

jmascis

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Yeah, those listing photos were the only ones. No other photos. He never mentioned cracks. That's why I thought UPS did it...
I'm not sure what to do. Seller is getting testy and said to ship it back, but that will be pricey cross-country, and I can't really afford the loss or repairs.
 

dreadnut

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This is just my opinion: send it back, that neck was seriously stressed somehow. You don't need a cracked DV-52, there are plenty of others out there that come up for sale that aren't cracked. Shipping it back will be your least expensive option. Let the seller decide if he needs to make a claim with UPS or if the guitar was already like that, it shouldn't be your problem to inherit either way. Sorry to be the old curmudgeon.
 
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jmascis

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This is just my opinion: send it back, that neck was seriously stressed somehow. You don't need a cracked DV-52, there are plenty of others out there that come up for sale that aren't cracked. Shipping it back will be your least expensive option. Let the seller decide if he needs to make a claim with UPS or if the guitar was already like that, it shouldn't be your problem to inherit either way. Sorry to be the old curmudgeon.

That's what I was thinking. I don't need a headache. Something happened to it. Either UPS, or he didn't disclose it. Personally, seeing the condition of the box and that UPS lost it for days, I thought it was them.
 

adorshki

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That's what I was thinking. I don't need a headache. Something happened to it. Either UPS, or he didn't disclose it. Personally, seeing the condition of the box and that UPS lost it for days, I thought it was them.

On top of that, if seller's making a claim, he ought to add cost of return shipping to it.
YOU shouldn't be on hook for something over which you had absolutely no control.
This ain't just an "I don't like it" return.
My sympathies are with you though, it's one reason I simply don't consider internet shopping for guitars to be a viable method, for me.
Others here have great success but one bad deal like this is more than I can afford, either.
 

jmascis

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On top of that, if seller's making a claim, he ought to add cost of return shipping to it.
YOU shouldn't be on hook for something over which you had absolutely no control.
This ain't just an "I don't like it" return.
My sympathies are with you though, it's one reason I simply don't consider internet shopping for guitars to be a viable method, for me.
Others here have great success but one bad deal like this is more than I can afford, either.

Thanks.

Yes, I don't think I will ever buy a guitar online again.

There are two things working against you:

1. The seller's motives.
2. UPS/shipping.

If you get past #1, you still have to deal with #2. It's just a headache. I think this is going to work out. I will likely return it, but the seller did inquire whether UPS would cover any repair bill. If they would, I might consider that option (though probably not). The guitar plays nicely, so it has that going for it and makes it tempting. I just know if I had to ever resell it, with repairs, I'd never get what I paid...
 
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merlin6666

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Thanks.

Yes, I don't think I will ever buy a guitar online again.

.

This brings back memories of my first online/eBay guitar purchase around 15 years ago. I was totally clueless about the whole process and extremely trusting. And when the guitar arrived and I tuned it up the top collapsed as one of the braces had come loose. I complained to the seller who did NOTHING, and I had no awareness of all the buyer protection that eBay provided so just got it repaired and moved on with life. Turned out to be the best guitar, I ever had but I was totally turned off eBay and online purchases for about 10 years. Now within the last four years or so I bought another four guitars and two ukes online and they all had some minor flaws upon arrival, and a reasonable resolution of issues could be found.

If the seller turns out to be unreasonable then don't be shy to use the protection you get through eBay. PayPal, or credit cards. Also if you really like the guitar and the cost of repair is reasonable, there's nothing wrong with swallowing your pride and a small extra expense and moving on to just enjoy the guitar.
 

jmascis

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This brings back memories of my first online/eBay guitar purchase around 15 years ago. I was totally clueless about the whole process and extremely trusting. And when the guitar arrived and I tuned it up the top collapsed as one of the braces had come loose. I complained to the seller who did NOTHING, and I had no awareness of all the buyer protection that eBay provided so just got it repaired and moved on with life. Turned out to be the best guitar, I ever had but I was totally turned off eBay and online purchases for about 10 years. Now within the last four years or so I bought another four guitars and two ukes online and they all had some minor flaws upon arrival, where a reasonable resolution was found. If the seller turns out to be an unreasonable *** then don't be shy to use the protection you get through eBay. PayPal, or credit cards. Also if you really like the guitar and the cost of repair is reasonable, there's nothing wrong with swallowing your pride and a small extra expense and moving on to just enjoy the guitar.

Thanks for the input. It's not about pride at all, but just that I don't have money for repairs. I had a budget, and this guitar fell within it, but repairs don't.
If UPS covers the cost of repairs, I can consider that option, but I'm not holding my breath it even becomes an option.
 

txbumper57

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I am genuinely sorry to hear that you are having to go through this. It really sucks to deal with all of it because truthfully you should be enjoying your purchase right now instead of trying to figure out what needs to be done so you can enjoy it or send it back. Bottom line is even if UPS covers the repairs you are stuck with a repaired Guitar which effects the overall value. If it was a rare model like a F612 or a very limited run Guild I would say the repairs may be worth it as you will probably not find another any time soon. Also for a rare guitar if the repairs are done professionally and everything looks good it can have no effect on the value due to the limited number out there. As far as a DV52, There are tons of them available. Personally I would send it back.

Like mentioned earlier, Those cracks to the sound hole are from the Neck block slipping over time due to either heat, improper humidification, Being stored under full string tension for a long period of time or all of the above. Those cracks were there before it was shipped. If it would have happened during shipping there would be flakes of Finish everywhere in the case and on top of the guitar like pieces of Glaze that have fallen off of a Glazed donut from the impact. I am pretty sure that was an existing condition.

As far as shopping for a guitar online it can be a hassle like you are experiencing now. I know the feeling all too well of being exited for a New Guitar Day and looking forward to some one on one Quality time with the guitar only to open the case and realize there is a huge headache instead because the guitar was not as advertised. Because of this I have a check list that I go through for purchasing online that covers everything from Neck angle and saddle height to finish checking, previous repairs, or any issues not mentioned by the seller. I require a full set of photos of the guitar I am interested in from all angles as well as a few measurements from the seller themselves to determine the actual condition of the guitar before I purchase. If the seller does not care to send the extra photos or take the measurements for me, then I just don't so business with them plain and simple. Since I implemented the check list to determine the true condition of the guitar I have not had any Arrival Day surprises from my purchases. One more thing I require in writing whether it be in an email or listed on a paypal invoice, That the seller will give me a 72 hour approval/Return period to have the guitar structurally checked by my Luthier to make sure everything is copacetic and on the level. For purchasing guitars online the best way to pay online for a guitar is using Paypal and purchasing as Goods. Yes the fees are a little higher than if you paid as sending money to a friend but you are also entitled to buyer protection through paypal when purchasing as Goods where you are not protected just sending money as a Friend.

Packing the guitar is the most important issue of all and I make sure to instruct the sellers on the proper way to secure the guitar so it does not move in the case during shipping. I have a full checklist for packing as well that helps to avoid any damage that may occur during shipping.

I always make sure that the guitar is insured for the full amount of the sale as well as the full amount of the shipping to me in case anything goes wrong. If the seller is on the level and doesn't mind going through the checklist then most of the time you can count on them being Honest about the condition. If they don't want to take the time then they don't get my money.

If you do decide that you are looking at another online guitar and you want a second opinion on it don't be afraid to PM me with the listing and a link to the photos. I will be happy to take a look for you to check and see if everything is on the level or to see if you need the seller to send you more photos and such. I probably have 5-6 members a week PM with a listing they want my opinion on for condition and market value, ect... I'm not saying I am 100% Guaranteed to be right all the time but at least you will have a second set of eyes helping out to try and avoid having another Bad NGD experience. I am happy to help with evaluations any way I can as I feel that is one of the great things about this forum with everyone helping everyone else out.

I know it sounds like a lot to go through but if you get everything inline where it needs to be then it can definitely be worth it to purchase the guitar you want online.

Best of luck to you and I hope it all works out no matter what decision you make. If you do decide to send it back I would ask the seller for the return shipping fees as this had nothing to do with you. Also there are plenty of DV52's out there to be had for Awesome prices in Excellent condition.

TX
 

adorshki

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Thanks.

Yes, I don't think I will ever buy a guitar online again.

There are two things working against you:

1. The seller's motives.
Right now, given you observation that seller's asking if UPS will pay for damage, my suspicions are aroused, because:
The last I heard, a damage claim must be filed by the holder of the UPS account used for shipment, I assume that was the seller.
Is the seller an active on-line seller? Then you'd think they'd be well aware of that.


2. UPS/shipping.

If you get past #1, you still have to deal with #2. It's just a headache.
Right, there've been threads dedicated to showcasing UPS horror stories that generally wind up as UPS-bashing parties.
Dropping that temptation for the moment, and with the observation that all 3 of the most common carriers (Fed Ex, UPS, USPS) have been the subject of "horror story" threads here, let's just say that UPS understandably limits its liability in a couple of ways:
1:
Shipper responsibility for "safe" packaging:
They offer packaging services at their retail outlets which comes at a hefty price but makes it hard for them to claim the packaging was inadequate.
2: $ limit on liability for undeclared value, otherwise insurance for declared value is available, again at a hefty premium.
SO:
IF they weren't involved in the actual packing of the piece, and no value was declared, I'm doubtful of the chances of any claim being honored, despite the condition of the box.
We try to share a list of details of "safe" packaging, when a new member lets us know they're about to have something shipped, but in this case I think "the cow was out of the barn" before anybody could give you pointers, in case the seller wasn't experienced in shipping guitars.
But coming back full circle, the initiation of the claim is the shipper's responsibility.
Ideally the driver's record of a damaged box being delivered plus the couple of days being lost may wind up getting his claim approved.

I think this is going to work out. I will likely return it, but the seller did ask inquire whether UPS would cover any repair bill. If they would, I might consider that option (though probably not). The guitar plays nicely, so it has that going for it and makes it tempting.
Vintage Guilds in good shape're incredibly consistent with playability from what I see here all the time. All 3 of mine were perfect out of the box.
Gotta admit I'm in the camp that'd hold out for the next one and you'll be better prepared for the possible pitfalls of shipping.
And there're times when I realize that if I ever needed to replace my F65ce, for instance, I'd probably have no choice but to use the internet.
Same goes for a DV52 right now.
Let us know if and when you need the "packaging a guitar for shipping" post, and good luck!
 

jmascis

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If you do decide that you are looking at another online guitar and you want a second opinion on it don't be afraid to PM me with the listing and a link to the photos. I will be happy to take a look for you to check and see if everything is on the level or to see if you need the seller to send you more photos and such. I probably have 5-6 members a week PM with a listing they want my opinion on for condition and market value, ect... I'm not saying I am 100% Guaranteed to be right all the time but at least you will have a second set of eyes helping out to try and avoid having another Bad NGD experience. I am happy to help with evaluations any way I can as I feel that is one of the great things about this forum with everyone helping everyone else out.

Awesome! Thanks. I will likely take you up on that, because I am going to need a new acoustic.

I did have a checklist, actually. I asked about neck angle, string height at the 12th fret, if the saddle had been lowered, etc. All the key ones. I guess I forgot to post this photo in the original set, but there was what looked like wood/dust in the case: http://imgur.com/a/BtJbZ

I vacuumed it out right away thinking it was the prior seller just not keeping his case clean, and I did that before examining the guitar (stupid, I know, but lesson learned...think I was just anxious and a bit OCD to clean up that messy case!). You mention that could be a sign the damage happened during shipping.
 

jmascis

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Right now, given you observation that seller's asking if UPS will pay for damage, my suspicions are aroused, because:
The last I heard, a damage claim must be filed by the holder of the UPS account used for shipment, I assume that was the seller.
Is the seller an active on-line seller? Then you'd think they'd be well aware of that.

I think in this case reverb.com is the shipper, because he purchased UPS shipping through them. That's what I was told. And they're trying to see if UPS will cover any damage.

Thanks for all the information on UPS and your opinion to ship it back. I will do that. So many of you think it's the right move, and I know in my heart it is...it's just hard to go back to my FG-400A Yahama after playing the Guild!

If you guys can keep an eye out for a DV52 I would appreciate it. I am going to be looking, but if you come across an ace specimen just pm me!
 
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GuildFS4612CE

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At a minimum, the guitar is in need of a neck reset plus the block slippage needs to be attended to, along with possible brace issues.

That is not shipping damage...not saying there isn't other shipping damage...but it's also likely that the seller, like many people, is not all that aware of changes in the geometry of guitars...under tension they try to fold up on themselves...seller's lucky the box got squashed...he may be able to get a refund...but he does have to refund you...that's his responsibility...check with reverb to see if they have a policy regarding return shipping.

For reference, almost all older acoustic guitars either need a reset, or have had one...nature of the beast...and it's quite expensive, especially with Guild's construction techniques.

If you can't afford the necessary work on a used instrument, you might want to look at new instruments that come with warranties...or at least stick with local sellers where you can have the instrument checked out by a luthier before purchase.

Good luck resolving the problem.
 

adorshki

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I think in this case reverb.com is the shipper, because he purchased UPS shipping through them. That's what I was told. And they're trying to see if UPS will cover any damage.
Oh boy that might open a can of worms about liability.
My understanding is that Reverb is basically a "listing site" (like eBay) for individuals and businesses who still undertake their own packing.
So in this case Reverb was a subcontracted agent for use of their UPS account, if I understand it correctly.
Still, perhaps there are benefits to the arrangement that will work in your (and/or the seller's) favor.
Also Jane's input (FS4612ce) is very often an "alternate point of view" that cuts out a lot of other "noise" (like mine, LOL!), and she's got more experience evaluating pre-existing condition than I do, for sure.
 
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