I bought a DV-52

jmascis · Jun 7, 2017

adorshki said:
Right.
I'm notorious for championing D'Addario EJ-16 lights, .012-.053 pb. (Guild doesn't offer strings any more, last I checked)
D'A actually made Guild's L350 set during that time with one variation: Guild's L350's had an .025 G string.
I used the Guilds or D'A's since day one ( I bought it new) and buy an .025 single to sub into the D'A set, and my 20+year old D25's neck's still perfectly aligned.
So I back your decision to go with lights to preserve the neck set.
Guild shipped all their dreads with L350's from at least '96 through end of Corona, it's on all the spec sheets.
Set up height from Westerly was 5.5-6/64th on bass E at 12th fret and 4.5-5/64ths on treble.
All 3 of mine came out of the box that way and I love it.

Awesome, thank you. Just the info I was looking for, so target .12-.53s. Those are the exact strings (I think, if they are Phosphor Bronze) I use on my Yamaha, so I have 2 sets right here ready to go.

Everyone always talks about the great bass on these guitars -- do you get it with lights? I'd sacrifice a little of that to avoid a neck reset. Do you have any thoughts on using mediums and then down tuning a half step? That would be the other option to try to get the best of both worlds.

dreadnut · Jun 7, 2017

My D-25M came from Westerly with mediums. Been playing mediums on her for 41 years, no bridge lifting or bellying. I've been playing mediums on my DV-52 for 15 years, no problems.

Seriously, I just can't get the punch out of my dreads with a set of lights. They just seem to open up and ring out with mediums; they're nice and loud without having to hammer on them. Depends a lot on what you're doing with it too; acoustic or amped, fingerpicking or flatpicking, rhythm or lead...

I use to play with a guy that had a brand new Taylor; he always had it tuned down 1/2 step to "reduce the stress." Now why would you want a guitar where you had to worry about that? What a pain, capo everything! Actually, I suspect it was probably his caution more than the Taylor.

By the way, I'm with you, jmascis, I bought my DV-52 sight unseen from a pawn shop on ebay..because I knew what I was getting.

adorshki · Jun 7, 2017

jmascis said:
Everyone always talks about the great bass on these guitars -- do you get it with lights?

I can vouch for it on my D25 and D40, but "I got a technique".

jmascis said:
I'd sacrifice a little of that to avoid a neck reset. Do you have any thoughts on using mediums and then down tuning a half step? That would be the other option to try to get the best of both worlds.

I just don't think you're gaining anything by doing that. It's the tension that's generating the energy into the top.
Also, I have a great amount of respect for Dreadnut's input, but I'll point out that his D25M was built during a time when Westerlys had a rep for being "overbuilt" and like he said it came with mediums.
The builds were lightened up in mid-to late '80's when George Gruhn brought in Kim Walker, though, and DV52's were the end product of all that effort.
So his report about his '99 handling the stress for 15 years is kinda surprising to me, but who knows what another 5 years might bring?
We've also talked about the pros and cons of getting the sound you want vs the projected life of the neckset and I have to admit I can't disagree with folks who think you should go with the sound you want even if it means shorter neck life.
It's not really a given that higher tension strings will shorten the neckset life even though it seems pretty logical and likely.

jmascis · Jun 7, 2017

Thanks, Dreadnut, and also Adorski. Yeah I read the older Guilds were overbuilt, but this model not so much.

I'll take that all into consideration. First thing is to get this guitar (Friday, according to UPS), and make sure everything else checks out. If it does, I think I will take the bluegrass set off the original owner put on (I love the idea in theory, but the medium strings on half the neck worries me) and go with the EJ16 that I have.

If those sound too thin, I will have to considering putting mediums, adjusting the truss rod, and start saving for a neck reset. :/

I really do love mediums. They sound so much better on my Yahama. But they destroyed it, so I'm a bit sensitive to the issue of neck resets via string tension. I'm glad I learned this lesson the hard way on a $80 guitar.

When I was in the local shop testing Martins, all the strings sounded pretty good with lights except the G string. It sounded way too thin. I think it was .24. A .26 from a medium set would sound so much better. If this was a Martin I'd just go with mediums since neck resets on Martins are pretty easy. On Guilds, where I live in CA, a neck reset costs 1k to 1.2k, if you can find a luthier even willing to do it, because of how they make the neck joints. It's the one and only knock on Guild I've ever heard about from the luthiers around here whom I trust. My luthier does own one and loves it, but he said specifically to be anal about the neck angle, and if you find a good one to keep it that way, because they are not easy to work on. He actually rejects all Guilds (and Gibsons) at this point in his career (he's old) because of how hard a job those two are.

GuildFS4612CE · Jun 7, 2017

If you like the string set except for the one string, you can always buy a single from a gauge set in the gauge you want and change that one string out...easy.

txbumper57 · Jun 7, 2017

Here is the difference in advertised total Tension for Medium and light gauge Daddario Coated strings. The uncoated strings are very close to the same numbers. If you like the feel and tone of the mediums and you are that worried about tension you can always tune the mediums down 1/2 a step and use a capo on the first fret. I have figured out the math on Daddario's string tension calculator and the Mediums 1/2 a step down are almost Identical to the tension of the lights at Standard tuning.

Medium EXP17's= 180.70 lbs. of total tension in Standard tuning on 25.5" scale length.

Light EXP16's= 156.29 lbs. of total tension in Standard tuning on 25.5" scale length.

I am currently using Elixir Nanowed Phosophor Bronze Light HD strings on all of my Guild acoustics whether they came with lights or mediums originally. Most westerly through Corona builds had lights and most Tacoma through New Hartford Builds came with Mediums. They have the light low end strings and the medium High end strings. Basically it is a 13-53 set instead of a 13-56 or 12-53 set. The beauty of that set is the tension on the neck is relieved a bit when playing in standard tuning but I still get that full sound and feel on the high strings which is where I feel lights loose a bit of tone and projection.

As long as you keep the guitar properly humidified I think you will be alright. The big reason I wound up switching to lights or light HD's was more due to my left shoulder issues that trickle down into to hand strength ability than neck angle issues. Just for reference I previously have run medium gauge Daddario strings for 10 years on one of my Westerly made Guilds and never had an ounce of neck angle movement. One major factor in that is having the guitar properly setup and keeping up with preventative maintenance including proper humidity levels. Best of luck with whatever you choose and I hope the DV52 is everything you want it to be! Can't wait to see some pics after she arrives.

TX

jmascis · Jun 7, 2017

txbumper57 said:
Here is the difference in advertised total Tension for Medium and light gauge Daddario Coated strings. The uncoated strings are very close to the same numbers. If you like the feel and tone of the mediums and you are that worried about tension you can always tune the mediums down 1/2 a step and use a capo on the first fret. I have figured out the math on Daddario's string tension calculator and the Mediums 1/2 a step down are almost Identical to the tension of the lights at Standard tuning.

Medium EXP17's= 180.70 lbs. of total tension in Standard tuning on 25.5" scale length.

Light EXP16's= 156.29 lbs. of total tension in Standard tuning on 25.5" scale length.

I am currently using Elixir Nanowed Phosophor Bronze Light HD strings on all of my Guild acoustics whether they came with lights or mediums originally. Most westerly through Corona builds had lights and most Tacoma through New Hartford Builds came with Mediums. They have the light low end strings and the medium High end strings. Basically it is a 13-53 set instead of a 13-56 or 12-53 set. The beauty of that set is the tension on the neck is relieved a bit when playing in standard tuning but I still get that full sound and feel on the high strings which is where I feel lights loose a bit of tone and projection.

As long as you keep the guitar properly humidified I think you will be alright. The big reason I wound up switching to lights or light HD's was more due to my left shoulder issues that trickle down into to hand strength ability than neck angle issues. Just for reference I previously have run medium gauge Daddario strings for 10 years on one of my Westerly made Guilds and never had an ounce of neck angle movement. One major factor in that is having the guitar properly setup and keeping up with preventative maintenance including proper humidity levels. Best of luck with whatever you choose and I hope the DV52 is everything you want it to be! Can't wait to see some pics after she arrives.

TX

Hey thanks, TX, very informative post.

Yeah I was thinking mediums tuned down would work well as a compromise, but someone above said that wouldn't help much. I don't know the physics of it, but logically it seems down-tuning would relieve some tension. I'd just play in Eb or transpose rather than use a capo (these indent/destroy frets rather quickly).

I have my Yahama tuned down to D/standard tuning (i.e. one full step down), and it definitely seems to help. The mediums just folded that guitar right up. I now have to use lights and drop tune them. Brutal! It's a shame because the cheap, laminated Yahamas actually sounds very good. The playability and feel are tough, but the sound itself is good, which is why I never upgraded until now when it completely bowed over itself.

dreadnut · Jun 7, 2017

Haha, this ain't no Yamaha!

dreadnut · Jun 7, 2017

My D-25M is a real bass cannon. The DV-52 is more balanced across all 6 strings. If I'm leading the singing I want my D-25, if I'm fingerpicking Jim Croce or Gordon Lightfoot songs I tend to prefer the DV-52. Both delightful to play.

txbumper57 · Jun 7, 2017

jmascis said:
Hey thanks, TX, very informative post.

Yeah I was thinking mediums tuned down would work well as a compromise, but someone above said that wouldn't help much. I don't know the physics of it, but logically it seems down-tuning would relieve some tension. I'd just play in Eb or transpose rather than use a capo (these indent/destroy frets rather quickly).

I have my Yahama tuned down to D/standard tuning (i.e. one full step down), and it definitely seems to help. The mediums just folded that guitar right up. I now have to use lights and drop tune them. Brutal! It's a shame because the cheap, laminated Yahamas actually sounds very good. The playability and feel are tough, but the sound itself is good, which is why I never upgraded until now when it completely bowed over itself.

Whoever said Mediums a 1/2 a step down wouldn't work didn't do their research very well or have never tried it on their guitars. I run that configuration on a few guitars and according to Daddario themselves The Mediums 1/2 step down from standard come in at the same tension as the lights at full standard tuning +/- 3 to 5lbs. of overall tension. My Guild jumbos and Dreads have a wonderful Growl 1/2 step down with Mediums on them and they still deliver the same punch, projection , tone, and sustain that comes with a thicker set of strings. You just can't get that out of a lighter string set. If I am playing in Standard tuning I mostly run the Light HD's Elixirs I spoke of earlier but if I am going to be playing 1/2 step down on a 25.5" scale I throw some medium Daddarios on and let a rip. If my left hand wasn't so prone to losing strength in it form my shoulder issues I would still be running Mediums on all my Guilds no matter the tuning. Another way to verify that Mediums 1/2 step down have the same tension as lights at standard tuning is when I change between the 2 sets My neck angle is identical and there are no adjustments needed. Best of luck and if you go to the Daddario site you can use their string tension calculator to see for yourself. It really is a wonderful tool.

TX

tarheelguild · Jun 7, 2017

I prefer D'Addario Phosphor-bronze myself. i find mediums too heavy but a lot of players seem to like them. Depends on one's style: "The world don't move to the tune of just one strummer...." sorry, couldn't resist! Loving my new D30, but I've always wanted a DV52, maybe someday!
Tony
'98 D30 AB
'98 D225 NT
'96 D25 CH
'96 D4 NT
'84 D40 NT
'00 Taylor 414 ce

jmascis · Jun 7, 2017

txbumper57 said:
Best of luck and if you go to the Daddario site you can use their string tension calculator to see for yourself. It really is a wonderful tool.

TX

I just used the tool. That was really cool. I compared the lights vs mediums tuned down 1/2 step.
The D string has a 2lb difference and high E a 1.5lb difference. The rest are all sub 1lb difference.

I got 160lbs total for the lights (EJ16) and 165lbs (EJ17) for the mediums tuned down 1/2 step. That's great.
But how does the extra 2lb and 1.5lb on the D and E string affect things?

tarheelguild · Jun 7, 2017

Forgot to mention I use Light gauge D'Addarios! Sorry....

txbumper57 · Jun 7, 2017

jmascis said:
I just used the tool. That was really cool. I compared the lights vs mediums tuned down 1/2 step.
The D string has a 2lb difference and high E a 1.5lb difference. The rest are all sub 1lb difference.

I got 160lbs total for the lights (EJ16) and 165lbs (EJ17) for the mediums tuned down 1/2 step. That's great.
But how does the extra 2lb and 1.5lb on the D and E string affect things?

I honestly don't think there will be any discernible or structural difference between the 2. At least let me say that I have not found any difference and 2 of the guitars I run with Mediums 1/2 step down are Orpheums which are considered ultra light builds when compared to the DV52 you have purchased.

TX

Neal · Jun 7, 2017

Let's do the math. You try medium strings and they sound better than lights, which they usually do on a dreadnought. OK. Now you start the clock to the time the guitar needs a neck reset. 20 years, 30 years, maybe forty?

I can't really tell you how long, because none of the 50 or so Guilds I have ever owned has needed one. Some have been close, but heck, they were over 40 years old.

The difference in string tension between mediums and lights is likely to bring on the need for a neck reset sooner, but not drastically sooner.

So, if your guitar is a '98, it is 19 years old. Once you check the neck angle, you will know how much the geometry has changed in 19 years. Based on the tall saddle, I would say "not much". Either that, or it has already had one.

My vote would be to use the strings that sound best, at the pitch that sounds best, and worry about the possibility of a neck reset 20 years from now. Going rate today is around $500 for a neck reset, divided by 20 years = $25 per year to play it the way it sounds best.

West R Lee · Jun 7, 2017

I've owned two DV-52's, you'll love it!

West

tjmangum · Jun 8, 2017

I have a 1999 gloss top DV-52 and a 2004 Martin HD28. The Guild, iMHO, is a better sounding guitar. Richer sounding and more resonant. If I could only keep one, it would be the Guild. The Martin would have been gone long ago, but it was the first good guitar I ever had and a gift from my wife.
You will enjoy your DV-52!

binod30 · Jun 8, 2017

Boy, Txbumper57, seriously, dude, you are a cornucopia of useful information. Honestly, thanks. I have to admit, I was originally scratching my head on the tune down meds 1/2 step solution. But, you cleared it up. Thanks for providing valuable information for this post. Mucho appreciation.
jmascis, is it possible that your neck warping on your Yamaha had nothing to do with the medium strings? Perhaps, it was just the guitar, or the environment. I don't know, I am just throwing it out there. Also, I do not play a lot of Blue Grass music, so I very much prefer light gauge strings, (12-53). I can play longer, and they are easier on me. Plus. I feel that they accent the string-to-string balance of the Guild Guitars. I really like D'Adarios EJ16's (coated or non-coated)and I have recently discovered Martin FX740's (92/8, 12-54) which I am really liking.
For what it's worth ...

txbumper57 · Jun 8, 2017

binod30 said:
Boy, Txbumper57, seriously, dude, you are a cornucopia of useful information. Honestly, thanks. I have to admit, I was originally scratching my head on the tune down meds 1/2 step solution. But, you cleared it up. Thanks for providing valuable information for this post. Mucho appreciation.

No problem Binod30, I just try to share my experiences from over the years. Hopefully it will help someone else in some way, shape, or form. That is one of the things I love the most about this forum, Everybody shares their knowledge and experience to ultimately help one another. Not to make a decision for them, But to possibly give them more info so they can make a more informed decision for themselves as each of us is different and there really is no right or wrong.

If you think about the mediums 1/2 step down as opposed to the lights at standard tuning, The mediums are running the same tension on the top or in this case just a few more pounds at 1/2 step down as the lights are at Standard tuning. That means you are still transferring the same amount tension to the top to produce the tone. The difference with the mediums 1/2 step down is that the material you are using to transfer those vibrations (ie. the strings) actually has more mass than the lights do, which transfers more energy resulting in more tonal output at the same or similar string tension.

TX

dreadnut · Jun 8, 2017

I recently tried a set of Martin Silk & Steels on my DV-52...OK, that experiment is hereby over! Easy to play but hard to hear, I don't even care for the sound when it's plugged into my amp.

I bought a DV-52

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