Sgt. Pepper PBS special this Saturday

1969 recording session. https://youtu.be/Cnf1i1SwCgo

Cool footage. They seem to be getting along fine there. Ringo looks bored. Annoying to see Yoko there.

Westerly Wood said:

well, always wondered why Paul was my least favorite Beatle. Now I get why...

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To me it was because he wrote the most tunes I simply can't abide, like:
"Your Mother Should Know"
"the Long and Winding Road"
"Hey Jude"
And even though I gotta give him his due for playing the solo on "Taxman" and composing "Live and Let Die", I can simply never forgive the crime against music that is "Teddy Boy".
My one fear is that I'll die and go to hell and that the only soundtrack will be McCartney tunes, and not even the good ones like "Too Many People" from Ram
Like most criminals I think it can be traced back to his childhood:
"McCartney's father was a trumpet player and pianist, who had led Jim Mac's Jazz Band in the 1920s. He kept an upright piano in the front room, encouraged his sons to be musical and advised Paul to take piano lessons..."
He was doomed to write schmaltz from the get-go.
"When I'm 64" was actually one of his earliest compositions.
And though "Yellow Submarine" is credited to Lennon-McCartney, it's got Paul written all over it.
In fairness, I've been coming across a lot of redeeming bio material recently.
And not that my hero John didn't have his own lapses: (heresy again): "Imagine"
You'n'me, we love the hard stuff, so that's where I'm steerin' ya.

Oh Hey Jude, Al, do not even get me started re my detest for how that song just cannot buy an ending. "yeah Paul, we get it, cool beginning and idea, but please, stop this song already before..."

hey, still like Rocky Racoon though. not sure why. most likely as it was one of first songs i ever learned on guitar, right after i learned Denver's Country Roads. Schmaltz is a great word for much of Paul's efforts, though he was a bad *** bass player. hey, I cannot really complain about Paul, he was a great songwriter all in all. It is not is fault I just like very few of his songs. Without Lennon's darkness and humor, I don't thing the Beatles get out of the bathroom.

The Pepper four-track tapes themselves belie the "Paul on piano, plus Ringo" account, whatever George's impression of the sessions may've been. I don't think he was paying that much attention.

I realize my love of Pepper is a minority view among the Beatles hardcore. Whatever…I do love it and am thrilled with the new remix. I also think being neither a John man nor a Paul man helps: no offense taken at a McCartney-led project.

When I'm Sixty Four is a knowing pastiche of English music hall fare. Yer Blues is a knowing pastiche of English blooze. Two examples of the same thing, yet certainly not generally perceived as such. How come?

John ragged on Mr. Kite in the early '70s, but changed his take later on. In 1980: "It's so cosmically beautiful. The song is pure, like a painting, a pure watercolor."

-Dave-

Hey Dave, I notice you have but the 1 Guild acoustic, an F20. From 1962. Interesting, no dread etc...I have heard these F20s put out quite the projection.

Wood, yep, the F-20 is the Guild acoustic that does it for me. Small & punchy. I used to have some larger acoustics, but nerve issues with my right shoulder and arm in the mid-2000s pushed me to get rid of most of 'em. I still have an old Gibson L-50 archtop, though. Too good to get rid of, and surgery back in 2013 fixed the nerve thing. My other acoustics are all small-ish too. I like the mid-focused sound, and as I like to mess around with recording I find smaller guitars record easier.

-Dave-

Quantum Strummer said:

Wood, yep, the F-20 is the Guild acoustic that does it for me. Small & punchy. I used to have some larger acoustics, but nerve issues with my right shoulder and arm in the mid-2000s pushed me to get rid of most of 'em. I still have an old Gibson L-50 archtop, though. Too good to get rid of, and surgery back in 2013 fixed the nerve thing. My other acoustics are all small-ish too. I like the mid-focused sound, and as I like to mess around with recording I find smaller guitars record easier.

-Dave-

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cool! I figure I will one day own an F20, once my shoulder pain is too much for the Br. I think I would like the punchiness. Can it be strummed some without breaking up?

Terry Gross interviewed Giles Martin on Fresh Air on June 1 about the remixed/remastered Sgt. Peppers. Podcast is here.

Wood, my particular F-20 isn't a strummer's guitar. Doesn't like being played hard. The longer scale F-20s should be more suitable overall for harder playing. The all-hog small Martin I had restored late last year, OTOH, can take whatever I throw at it.

-Dave-

Quantum Strummer said:

John ragged on Mr. Kite in the early '70s, but changed his take later on. In 1980: "It's so cosmically beautiful. The song is pure, like a painting, a pure watercolor."

-Dave-

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He was blinded by domestication and the recent completion of "Just Like Starting Over" :glee:

He'd only just recovered his mojo with the guitar parts on Yoko's "Walking on Thin Ice" when, well, you know....
"She and John Lennon concluded the recording of the song on December 8, 1980. It was upon their return from the recording studio to The Dakota (their home in New York City) that Lennon was murdered by Mark David Chapman. Lennon was clutching a tape of a final mix when he was shot."

:crying:

Quantum Strummer said:

The Pepper four-track tapes themselves belie the "Paul on piano, plus Ringo" account, whatever George's impression of the sessions may've been. I don't think he was paying that much attention.

I realize my love of Pepper is a minority view among the Beatles hardcore. Whatever…I do love it and am thrilled with the new remix. I also think being neither a John man nor a Paul man helps: no offense taken at a McCartney-led project.

When I'm Sixty Four is a knowing pastiche of English music hall fare. Yer Blues is a knowing pastiche of English blooze. Two examples of the same thing, yet certainly not generally perceived as such. How come?

John ragged on Mr. Kite in the early '70s, but changed his take later on. In 1980: "It's so cosmically beautiful. The song is pure, like a painting, a pure watercolor."

-Dave-

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No, no, Dave, I love Pepper! I love all of Pepper! And, silly me, I love every Beatles song, too!

The only "song" I always skip over is "Revolution #9". It makes me too paranoid. I once made the mistake of driving slightly buzzed, and before I could react, "#9" came on my cassette player. I had to pull over, and it took me a few hours to recover. No more.

walrus

adorshki said:

He was blinded by domestication and the recent completion of "Just Like Starting Over" :glee:

He'd only just recovered his mojo with the guitar parts on Yoko's "Walking on Thin Ice" when, well, you know....
"She and John Lennon concluded the recording of the song on December 8, 1980. It was upon their return from the recording studio to The Dakota (their home in New York City) that Lennon was murdered by Mark David Chapman. Lennon was clutching a tape of a final mix when he was shot."

:crying:

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For those who never heard it, here's "Walking on Thin Ice", one of the few Yoko songs I can listen to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft7-xEiwvJw

walrus

walrus said:

No, no, Dave, I love Pepper! I love all of Pepper! And, silly me, I love every Beatles song, too!

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And to be fair, I don't "hate" it myself, I just prefer the earlier stuff.
I actually put it on the stereo when the "announcement of the 50th Anni release thread" came up a couple of months back and said to myself, "OK, it's better than I remember".
But I do remember seeing somewhere just recently, I think it was on the BeatlesBible.com, that whereas Pepper initially was loved more than Revolver, over the years Revolver's finally gotten the respect it deserved and surpassed it.
So I think that's what Strummer's thinking of.

walrus said:

The only "song" I always skip over is "Revolution #9". It makes me too paranoid. I once made the mistake of driving slightly buzzed,
walrus

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LOL, I've got the same problem with the Wall.
I heard it at a buddy's house when it was literally 2 days old, and broke a several-months-old fast on smoking green leafy stuff.
And it was pretty strong stuff.
To this day it always arouses that "OD'd" feeling in me.
(and I like Ummagumma and Dark Side better than the Wall too.)
Cue the Floyd veers.
:biggrin-new:

adorshki said:

Cue the Floyd veers.
:biggrin-new:

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OK, I'll play.

When "Time" went on the turntable at the end of night, that was always the signal that the party was over, and it was time to head out into the pre-dawn darkness

I can't listen to Revolution 9 without chuckling. Cue Lennon's comment about wanting to show the band with its pants down. Consider that it was originally a long coda to the album version of Revolution, intended (I suspect) to function much like the laughter that follows Within You Without You on Pepper. "We're not being as serious as you think we are." Separating the coda from the rest of the song makes Revolution itself sound more self-important. Too much so IMO: they shoulda left the "shooby doowah" stuff from the demo in there too.

-Dave-

Ah, "Time", with that startling alarm clock in the opening! Always jumped, even though I knew it was coming.


Al, I never liked The Wall, so don't feel bad.


Perhaps my favorite - Animals.


Reverse veer - would Pink Floyd have existed without The Beatles?


walrus

walrus said:

Reverse veer - would Pink Floyd have existed without The Beatles?
walrus

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I'm gonna say "Yes".
From "the usual source" 's Pink Floyd page:

"Architecture students Roger Waters, Nick Mason and Richard Wright and art student Syd Barrett had performed under various group names since 1962, and began touring as "The Pink Floyd Sound" in 1965."

However, would they have ever gotten a record deal without the Beatles sparking the mad rush by labels to sign bands in hopes of cashing in on "the next big thing"?

I'm gonna say "I doubt it", the deal looks like a risk-limiting offer (although the page reports they had achieved enough notoriety to be pursued by multiple labels):

"The band's record deal was relatively poor for the time: a £5,000 advance over five years, low royalties and no free studio time. However, it did include album development and EMI, unsure of exactly what kind of band they had signed, gave them free rein to record whatever they wanted."[17]

Interestingly, when I went to verify my memory of just how far back their roots went, I stumbled across some Floyd/Beatles connections I was unaware of (after realizing I'd never made the EMI connection mentioned above):

" The Piper at the Gates of Dawn is the debut studio album by English rock band Pink Floyd..The album, was recorded from February to May 1967*** and released on 5 August 1967. It was produced by Beatles engineer Norman Smith and released in 1967 by EMI Columbia in the United Kingdom "

***so do ya think they may have been exposed to Pepper's sessions while in the studio?
C'mon, what're the odds?
Well, Lennon knew who they were, he attended the legendary 14-Hour Technicolor Dream where they headlined in April '67.....
https://www.beatlesbible.com/1967/04/29/john-lennon-attends-14-hour-technicolour-dream/

And:
"They were obliged to record their first album at EMI's Abbey Road Studios in London,[10][18] overseen by producer Norman Smith,[10][19] a central figure in Pink Floyd's negotiations with EMI.[20] Balance engineer Pete Bown, who had mentored Smith, helped ensure that the album had a unique sound, through his experimentation with equipment and recording techniques.[21] Bown, assisted by studio manager David Harris, set up microphones an hour before the sessions began. Bown's microphone choices were mostly different from those used by Smith to record the Beatles' EMI sessions"
"Automatic double tracking (ADT) was used to add layers of echo to the vocals and to some instruments.[23]"

Huh.
ADT was first used on Revolver

Dang, came back full circle to recording tricks of the trade.
Sorry 'bout that.
:biggrin-new:

adorshki said:

I'm gonna say "Yes".

" The Piper at the Gates of Dawn is the debut studio album by English rock band Pink Floyd..The album, was recorded from February to May 1967*** and released on 5 August 1967. It was produced by Beatles engineer Norman Smith and released in 1967 by EMI Columbia in the United Kingdom "

***so do ya think they may have been exposed to Pepper's sessions while in the studio?
C'mon, what're the odds?
:biggrin-new:

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No need for odds - it happened:

"According to Pink Floyd drummer Nick Mason, all four original members of the psych rock outfit — himself, Syd Barrett, Roger Waters, and Richard Wright — recorded music literally right next door to The Beatles at Abbey Road Studios in London. In his 2004 memoir, Inside Out: A Personal History of Pink Floyd, Mason points specifically to an instance in which Pink Floyd watched The Beatles record Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band highlight “Lovely Rita” around the same time they themselves made their debut album, 1967’s The Piper at the Gates of Dawn.

The sheer proximity of both bands’ studio sessions wasn’t just pure coincidence — it had an impact on what Pink Floyd would record. As avid Beatles/Pink Floyd fans have noted, there’s especially a handful of undeniable similarities between “Lovely Rita” and The Piper instrumental “Pow R. Toc H.”. In particular, compare the dense, intricate layering of sound, the quirky vocal stylings, and fuzzy noise effects.
While the musical overlap of both bands has always been acknowledged, it’s hard not to be amazed by such a fascinating factual tidbit. The Beatles and Pink Floyd may not have ever officially collaborated, but knowing that Sgt. Pepper and The Piper, two pieces of rock history, were conceived just mere feet from one another is almost mind-blowing enough."

walrus

walrus said:

While the musical overlap of both bands has always been acknowledged, it’s hard not to be amazed by such a fascinating factual tidbit. The Beatles and Pink Floyd may not have ever officially collaborated, but knowing that Sgt. Pepper and The Piper, two pieces of rock history, were conceived just mere feet from one another is almost mind-blowing enough."

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"Mind-blowing", indeed.
One begins to wonder if Barrett and Lennon were getting their LSD from the same source, too.

1968 https://youtu.be/S9fArMNddSA
Gilmour maybe just joined band. I like this stuff way better than the Wall.