F-412 binding glue ?

Nuuska

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Hello

Last night at gig a piece of binding popped loose - the curved piece on low-E-side starting at nut on headstock.
Luckily we noticed it and found it in one piece. Question is - what kind of glue was used on those?
Sure it could be glued with regular contact-glue, but if there is a way to do it better - why not.

The guitar is not mine, but the lead singer in a band I mix plays it. He bought it way back after getting inspired by my F-512

Thank you in advance.
 

adorshki

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Hello

Last night at gig a piece of binding popped loose - the curved piece on low-E-side starting at nut on headstock.
Luckily we noticed it and found it in one piece. Question is - what kind of glue was used on those?
Sure it could be glued with regular contact-glue, but if there is a way to do it better - why not.

The guitar is not mine, but the lead singer in a band I mix plays it. He bought it way back after getting inspired by my F-512

Thank you in advance.

Pretty sure anything prior to New Hartford was "all hide glue all the time", for basic construction, at least.
(They used Tite-bond to set necks in New Hartford but not sure if it might have started in Tacoma)
BUT....Chris Cozad mentioned recently that in all the old vintage Guilds he ever worked on ('70's-'80's) they actually glued pickguards to the tops with...NCL.!! It melted the back of the 'guard right into the top.
So it occurs to me binding might have been a candidate for that technique too, especially since it got finished over like the 'guards.
My '96 D25 has the finished over guard as well, just to expand the possible date range of use of the technique.
 
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Nuuska

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Hello

StewMac is in category "cyanoacrylates" - but all he tells is "Bind-ALL is the same glue used by major manufacturers."

No specs - nothing - only general rap "this is good"

Not very convincing.

I have cyanoacrylate, white glue, contact glue - they all will do. Just clean the surfaces, apply modest amount of glue and clamp.



But like I wrote in first post - does anybody know the type of glue, that was used by Guild ?
 

Christopher Cozad

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As Al mentions, there is an issue with attempting to bind plastic accessories to anything else, and that is that nothing really "sticks" to plastic. Essentially, you have to "melt" the stuff with something that will also adhere to the other surface (in your case, wood).

As far as which particular binding glue Guild used, I learned from various conversations with Guild employees over the years that they had "tried them all".

Here is one they were relatively happy with:

Binding_Glue_4784.jpg


There is no perfect solution, but there are some success stories. The Weld-On (above) works. I have never used Stew-Mac's glue (that Ralf mentioned), but I believe it is the same adhesive I get from LMI (and it works just fine):

Binding_Glue_EM308B.jpg
 

AcornHouse

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Just be aware, Weld-on has a VERY short open time (the time between when it's applied and when it starts to cure) and clean up can be tricky. Don't get it on any finished surface. (One of the reasons I only use wood bindings on my guitars.)
I'm anxious to try the new Stewmac stuff. It's supposed to be more user friendly.
 

SFIV1967

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I have never used Stew-Mac's glue (that Ralf mentioned), but I believe it is the same adhesive I get from LMI (and it works just fine)
Frank Ford from Gryphons thought this as well: http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=428615

But on this site http://theartoflutherie.com/best-glue-guitar-building/ they write this:

"Cement Adhesive (Nitrocellulose Solution)
The most commonly used version of this is called Duco Cement and is widely used for building models and other similar applications. It’s main purpose in guitar making is gluing plastic binding to the guitar body and other parts. It can be very toxic, have a strong odor, and can damage any nitrocellulose finish. Be sure to use this in a well-ventilated area and take caution. I mostly use wood bindings for my guitars so I don;t use this much, but in certain cases it’s a must have. Like when I did a repair to one of Jimmy D’Aquisto’s guitars a few years ago. I had to use this glue so that I could use the same type of binding material that Jimmy used when he built the guitar originally, so it is an important part of the luthiers pallet to have on hand for specific purposes.
Trade Names: Duco Cement, Bind-ALL Guitar Binding Glue"

So does it mean Bind-All is the same as Duco Cement?


Ralf
 

Aristera

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Just a side question, what is a good binding tape to use. Didn't Guild use the green 3M tape? I think I saw a pic of some Guilds being built in Oxnard that used the same. Something that won't mess us existing nitro finish.
 

Christopher Cozad

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Just a side question, what is a good binding tape to use. Didn't Guild use the green 3M tape? I think I saw a pic of some Guilds being built in Oxnard that used the same. Something that won't mess us existing nitro finish.
Plastic binding is real malleable, and readily conforms to the curves around the edge(s) of the guitar. It is applied with adhesive, prior to finishing, and held in place with tape until the glue sets. The tape needs to be strong enough to not tear as it is being applied, and the tape's adhesive should not be such that it tears out wood fiber when it is removed. Typically, a wash coat is applied to the softwood soundboard to mitigate that risk. Several tapes will work just fine, including green or "frog" tape.

Wood binding is much less forgiving and must be pre-bent / pre-formed to the contours of the guitar prior to application. Depending upon the situation, holding it in place can necessitate some rather drastic measures, including mummifying the guitar body with cloth twill tape. I have used most of the tapes out there, and prefer reinforced strapping tape (having the synthetic yarn filaments), though I can use pretty much any tape.

For binding repairs on finished guitars, plastic or wood, I am unaware of a tape that would do harm to the finish, so long as it is removed in a timely fashion. A low tack tape (such as painters or drafting tape) can be used with confidence, as long as it holds the binding material in place while the glue dries.
 

Christopher Cozad

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...So does it mean Bind-All is the same as Duco Cement?...
I don't believe so. I think Stew-Mac's "Bind-all" is Engineered Material's EM 308B Type II plastic cement (the same stuff in the glass jar I showed in the photo, above), where Duco is made by Devcon.

Here is a link to the Acoustic Guitar Forum where Frank also agrees that Stew-Mac's adhesive is the same as LMI's.
 

Aristera

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For binding repairs on finished guitars, plastic or wood, I am unaware of a tape that would do harm to the finish, so long as it is removed in a timely fashion. A low tack tape (such as painters or drafting tape) can be used with confidence, as long as it holds the binding material in place while the glue dries.

Thanks Christopher. I think I'll use a piece of drafting tape on a small piece of binding that popped of the top of the head piece when I took off a electronic tuner. I should have been more careful and opened the rubber clamp more slowly when removing.
 
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