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Thread: 1998 Westerly F30 with Low Saddle and Slight Bridge Lift

  1. #11
    Senior Member The Retro Rocker's Avatar
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    +1 on checking the neck angle, now that you've taken some relief out, as Al says!

    Also, I never judge anything strictly by saddle height on a USED guitar.
    From what you said, it had TOO MUCH relief, and it has a low saddle. HMMM...
    PERHAPS a previous owner was shaving the saddle to bring the action down...went a little too far (resulting in low saddle height), had some buzz or rattle because of it, and tried to get rid of the buzz or rattle by dialing in too much relief. It happens. It's not the right way to do it, but I've seen it.
    You'll know when you replace the saddle with a compensated bone saddle.

    And if you have an experienced guitar tech/luthier in your area, let him go over it, with you right there if possible! If not, make sure you ask TONS of questions!
    1975 G-41 w/K&K Mini (Westerly)
    1992 JF-30 Blonde, soon to get K&K Mini (Westerly)
    2002 X160 Rockabilly, w/DeArmond 2000s, (Corona)
    2003 JF-30 Black w/K&K Mini (Corona)
    2005 F50R Natural w/K&K Mini (Tacoma) “Kristofferson”
    2005 F50R 'Burst w/ K&K Mini (Tacoma)
    2012 F-50 Maple w/DTAR (New Hartford)

    Quilter MP200 amp w/12" ext cab
    K&K Pure PreAmp
    Fishman Aura Spectrum PreAmp
    Various EFX pedals

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by adorshki View Post
    ...it's caused by the fact that Guild glued bridges on after finishing and the unfinished gluing area was a little smaller than the outline of the bridge.
    Isn't that the way it's supposed to be?
    Otherwise one would see an awkward seam all around the bridge.
    The glue easily fills the gap that results from the brigde standing with it's outer edge on the finish - unless the finish was way too thick or, more likely, the cutout for the bridge in the finish too deep.

    Moritz

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by cutrofiano View Post
    Isn't that the way it's supposed to be?
    Otherwise one would see an awkward seam all around the bridge.
    The glue easily fills the gap that results from the brigde standing with it's outer edge on the finish - unless the finish was way too thick or, more likely, the cutout for the bridge in the finish too deep.

    Moritz
    Yes but in this case Guild made the unfinished footprint a bit too small for the glue to adhere all the way to the edge resulting in less tension strength and a open seam on the edge after time with the ability to slide a business card under the edge of the bridge. At the time of Manufacture this was not a problem as the bridge was seated tightly against the top but over 20-30 years of tension the smaller glued area allows the bridge to start creeping a bit from the bottom lower side resulting in the small gap. This is a common issue on some Westerly made Guilds. I had this same problem on a 70's Guild 12 string dread. Cost about $100 to have a competent Luthier pull the bridge and resurface the area for the glue to adhere to. Then takes about a week or two cure time for the bridge to set up properly and repair the nitro if needed. When I got mine back you couldn't tell there was ever any kind of work done and it looked like new. Never had a problem with it since. Just one of those things you'll discover is sometimes a part of owning vintage Guilds. If you google it there are several references where others have had to do the same thing. Not a big deal by any means.

    TX
    Last edited by txbumper57; 05-19-2017 at 01:56 PM.
    Guilds
    Hoboken-1960 X175, 1961 SF-II
    Westerly-1971 F612, 1976 G41, 2000 SF-V, 1984 S284, 1993 JF100-NT-CRV
    Nashville C.S. SFIV-3 P90 w/Trem
    Corona-2003 Fleming F47-Brz RW, 2003 D55 50th Ann. Brz RW#10 of 50, 2003 X160 R.B., 2003 SF-III-90
    Conn-2011 GSR D50 Coco, 2013 R30S, 2013 Orph 12 Fret Slope, 2013 Orph Jumbo, 2014 Orph Burst 000-12 Fret 12 String S.H. RW, 2012 F50-DTAR, 2012 F50R Burst, 2012 F50R DTAR, 2013 F512 Burst, 2014 F512-DTAR, 2014 D55-RS

    Amps
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    93 Sequoia

  4. #14
    Senior Member adorshki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cutrofiano View Post
    Isn't that the way it's supposed to be?
    Otherwise one would see an awkward seam all around the bridge.
    It only lifts at the back because string tension is pulling it forward, but it does extend somewhat to the sides as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by cutrofiano View Post
    or, more likely, the cutout for the bridge in the finish too deep.
    If, by "cutout" you mean a recessed area for the bridge to fit into, no, they didn't do that until New Hartford, precisely to finally deal with that problem.
    If you just mean a masked off area for the bridge while spraying the nitro, yes, that's how they did it.
    Other makers glue the bridge first and then mask it before spraying.
    Thee point is, if you hide-glue a bridge to NCL it will simply pull the NCL up and fail very quickly, because the NCL will bond to the hide-glue on the bridge much more strongly than it will to the top wood. It just "peels off".
    In Guild's case it does it at the back edge if the original masked area was too small.
    I've got it on my F65ce, and that's super-thin finish, but I don't know if it actually came out of the box that way and I just never noticed until about 4 years in (I bought it new with warranty at closeout price)
    When I took it for an evaluation at the local Guild warranty shop I was advised to wait and monitor, primarily because of the potential finish patching issue. Use of NCL in CA had become heavily regulated and economically unfeasible for a small independant shop.
    That was back in about '07 or '08 I think, and since then the warranty question has become "murky" although it would have qualified at the time.
    D25 (also super-thin finish) and D40 (super thick finish) show nary a hint of it.
    Last edited by adorshki; 05-19-2017 at 05:31 PM.
    Al
    "Time May Change the Technique of Music But Never Its Mission " - Rachmaninoff
    My 1st Guild: '96 Westerly D25NT "Hally" (10-31-96 stamped on heelblock)
    #2: '01 Westerly F65ce "Blondie"
    #3: '03 Corona D40e Richie Havens "Richie"
    All bought new!

  5. #15
    So... just curious... how does one release the glue bond of the rosewood bridge plate?

  6. #16
    Senior Member adorshki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swiveltung View Post
    So... just curious... how does one release the glue bond of the rosewood bridge plate?
    I assume just like any other hide glue bond: heat and moisture soften it up enough to break the bond.
    When it comes to neck re-sets, the fret wire at the neck joint is removed and a couple of holes are drilled in the slot.
    Then steam is injected into the joint through specialized needles.
    It occurs to me this might be one reason bridge plate replacement is considered extremely difficult.
    Getting steam in there must be tricky when the plate's almost completely surrounded by bracing.
    Maybe they do it through the bridge pin holes?
    But I've seen reports of top wood coming off with the plate, indicating the glue just didn't get completely softened, so it must be a pretty tricky process.
    I'd bet Mr Cozad could shed more light on the question.
    Al
    "Time May Change the Technique of Music But Never Its Mission " - Rachmaninoff
    My 1st Guild: '96 Westerly D25NT "Hally" (10-31-96 stamped on heelblock)
    #2: '01 Westerly F65ce "Blondie"
    #3: '03 Corona D40e Richie Havens "Richie"
    All bought new!

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