TRC, upside down?

if this TRC is upside down, then it would have to be from a lefty M-85. But its on a righty M-85?? (the audience should be able to read it when the player is facing them, holding the instrument horizontally).

It is the shape of the TRC that dictates the up/down. This TRC is shaped like the headstock. If the headstock were inverted it would be correct. As it is, no.

Looking here I would conclude that the TRC pictured is upside down and is either not factory or was originally on a left handed instrument.

fronobulax said:

Looking here I would conclude that the TRC pictured is upside down and is either not factory or was originally on a left handed instrument.

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Agreed!

walrus

i think someone did it wrong at the factory! its on a right handed M-85.

mavuser said:

i think someone did it wrong at the factory! its on a right handed M-85.

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While it is part of my nature to postulate improbable scenarios and then argue for their likelihood in the complete absence of supporting data, I'm guessing that the assembler decided having the lettering was more important than the orientation. Of course as I say this, I have to ask... Has anyone ever seen a left handed TRC with the lettering? Perhaps they were never made and left handed instruments with lettering had the TRC upside down by definition?

Anyone notice that if you were to turn it Right side up "according to the general consensus here on the forum" that it would not fit as the flared out top would hit the bottom tuning posts? Kinda of funny how the way it is now the "Bottom or Narrower End" looks like it has been clearanced to fit the bottom tuners isn't it? Just an Observation of course as always.

TX

txbumper57 said:

Anyone notice that if you were to turn it Right side up "according to the general consensus here on the forum" that it would not fit as the flared out top would hit the bottom tuning posts?
TX

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My world is shattered.

AHA!
Looks like the real "problem" is non-original tuning machines with bigger bezels, assuming this one is "factory":



Whew.
My world is restored.

The truss rod cover on the First bass posted in this thread doesn't have the same shape as the one you just posted. There is no Hump in the middle of the wider end so it would be at almost full width at the mounting hole itself. Regardless of tuners I still don't think it would fit properly.

TX

I don't believe it will fit if turned the other way.

How did I arrive at this conclusion? Purely scientifically. I printed two pictures of the headstock and cut out the truss rod cover, reamed out the screw holes and lined it up on the TRC screw holes on the other picture. The flared end might fit, if they meet the hex nuts at the right place, but it will be really really close. However, the "button" on the end where the "5" is looks like it will hit the nut.

Disclaimer: My printer is only black and white. Cutting that truss rod cover out with little gray scale difference wasn't easy, and the strings and shadowing camouflaged part of the truss rod cover edge, but it was the sides and not the ends, even so this scientific conclusion does have some margin for error.

Opsimath said:

I don't believe it will fit if turned the other way.

How did I arrive at this conclusion? Purely scientifically. I printed two pictures of the headstock and cut out the truss rod cover, reamed out the screw holes and lined it up on the TRC screw holes on the other picture. The flared end might fit, if they meet the hex nuts at the right place, but it will be really really close. However, the "button" on the end where the "5" is looks like it will hit the nut.

Disclaimer: My printer is only black and white. Cutting that truss rod cover out with little gray scale difference wasn't easy, and the strings and shadowing camouflaged part of the truss rod cover edge, but it was the sides and not the ends, even so this scientific conclusion does have some margin for error.

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Do you think you could also equalize the scales of the 2 pics and then print out the TRC from the bass I posted, and lay it over the first one, to confirm that they really are different sizes?

adorshki said:

Do you think you could also equalize the scales of the 2 pics and then print out the TRC from the bass I posted, and lay it over the first one, to confirm that they really are different sizes?

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Nope, not a chance.

it looks like someone cut the top (the big part we know as the top) off, including the original hole, thus making it shorter overall, and drilled a new hole in the center of the "new top" (what is now the bottom), then put it on upside down, but the new hole doesnt line up with the screw hole in the headstock, since its in the wrong place (the wrong distance now overall, from the other screw hole in the TRC...no matter if u call it top or bottom...) and there is no screw in the (current) bottom of the TRC (just one in the top). i still wonder if it was done that way at the factory due to a screw up in printing the font upside down. I dont think it was made for a lefty bass and then wound up on a righty bass. the M-85 is just too uncommon for all of that to happen, in all likleyhood.

I do notice it says "M-85" and not "M-85-2" like the one Frono posted (and it has 2 pickups), although by then there was likely no M-85-1 so all of them were maybe just "M-85?". and then the one Frono posted is a little older? Just...odd. the M-85 is a somewhat obscure model in the first place.

mavuser said:

it looks like someone cut the top (the big part we know as the top) off, including the original hole, thus making it shorter overall, and drilled a new hole in the center of the "new top" (what is now the bottom), then put it on upside down, but the new hole doesnt line up with the screw hole in the headstock, since its in the wrong place (the wrong distance now overall, from the other screw hole in the TRC...no matter if u call it top or bottom...) and there is no screw in the (current) bottom of the TRC (just one in the top).

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I like this explanation better, in fact, it just occurred to me, what if the original owner did do this to at least retain a TRC after replacing the machines?
In other words, it's not a lefty TRC and it wasn't printed upside down, it was just re-shaped and flipped after the machines were replaced.
Betcha that's what Occam'd say.

Just realized you were the OP.
Do I hear stifled maniacal laughter all the way over here on the left coast at how many of us snapped at that bait?
WELL done.
:glee:

adorshki said:

I like this explanation better, in fact, it just occurred to me, what if the original owner did do this to at least retain a TRC after replacing the machines?
In other words, it's not a lefty TRC and it wasn't printed upside down, it was just re-shaped and flipped after the machines were replaced.
Betcha that's what Occam'd say.

Just realized you were the OP.
Do I hear stifled maniacal laughter all the way over here on the left coast at how many of us snapped at that bait?
WELL done.
:glee:

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huh?

i think u may have missed a few of my key points. it is either a misprint or a lefty if from the factory. There is also a chance it was not stamped from the factory and/or the TRC itself is not factory, both very slim. And there is a chance those tuners are original.

"Mavuser to Moust, requesting TRC police backup!"

mavuser said:

i think u may have missed a few of my key points. it is either a misprint or a lefty if from the factory.

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Nah I just got turned around mentally, visualizing your analysis.
Just realized why this couldn't just be a flipped TRC, "DUH".
But for how it happened, isn't the "backward" logo engraved into a layered TRC blank?
Looks like it has white edges, even though I know other logos were silk-screened, like the "True American" and the Barry Gibb signature models.
Maybe because of the font on those types?
If they did the engraving at the factory then it would be relatively simple to make a "backward" logo TRC to accommodate the clearance issue created by the tuners, which seems a more likely explanation than a "mistake".
For that matter we've seen examples of custom engraved TRC's done that way, right?
So that's still not out of the question although perhaps a bit pricey.

adorshki said:

If they did the engraving at the factory then it would be relatively simple to make a "backward" logo TRC to accommodate the clearance issue created by the tuners, which seems a more likely explanation than a "mistake".
For that matter we've seen examples of custom engraved TRC's done that way, right?
So that's still not out of the question although perhaps a bit pricey.

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ahh now I understand what you are saying, or maybe still not quite but perhaps you/we/all of us have stumbled onto something else?
If the tuners are factory, but a change from previous...which Guild did all the time...and this generation of tuners has the bigger posts, so then the TRC just wouldnt work with this particular run of instruments from that time period, they would have modified that TRC one way or another to make it work (like they did on the 1966 Jetstar with the 6-on a side headstock). If we look closely at other M-85s or even other model Guild basses from right around that time, we may see some TRC variation indeed, many of them at least upside down I bet, and possibly modded like this one if you look close. would not be so obvious just black TRC on black headstock, with out the "backwards" model designation stamped in white. The tuners being orignal would support this theory. the tuners not being orignal would do zero to explain the TRC, It would have to be a misprint in that scenario. the lefty thing is just too many dots to connect on such an obscure model. The tuners do look like the later, higher quality (Schallers?) with the longer keys. the bass is a 1977 so that could be possibly original?

I can honestly say that as of tonight I have turned the Truss Rod Covers on all of my Custom Shop Guild Orpheums upside down on the small chance that Al and the Truss Rod Cover Police catch a view of it. I can't wait to see their reaction!:highly_amused:


TX

txbumper57 said:

I can honestly say that as of tonight I have turned the Truss Rod Covers on all of my Custom Shop Guild Orpheums upside down on the small chance that Al and the Truss Rod Cover Police catch a view of it. I can't wait to see their reaction!:highly_amused:


TX

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What you do in the privacy of your own house is none of my business as long as innocent humans, animals, or guitars aren't abused.
(TRC inversion may be neurotic, it's pretty obvious OCD behavior, but it's not dangerous as far as I know)
But if you post pics on Facebook that's gonna be another story entirely.
THAT's exploitation.
:livid: