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Thread: Guild "Lawsuiit Takamine"

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonneville88 View Post
    WW - cool story - and funny indeed to imagine the frantic note taking... also gotta
    wonder why they didn't just buy a Guild and send it to Japan... but maybe they did that too
    Oh totally. Or from pictures in books etc...
    Wood

    1971 D25 Flatback--The "Br"
    https://soundcloud.com/woody-adams/sets/not-metal

  2. #12
    Wood's story is true to what I have heard as well. They also had certain models of Martins and Guilds etc.. that they took back to Japan and disassembled to reverse engineer their copies. They did such a good job on copying certain models that Takamine continued to flourish and eventually was able to survive on their own designs as a Company. Up until the late 70's though they were strictly a company that produced more affordable copies of the Higher priced American made counterparts.

    Takamine did make different Copies of Predominant Guitar Builders throughout the 70's and early 80's. They copied everything from Martin, Gibson, and Guild to a Copy of a Gallagher Doc Watson model. They made several Guild Look a likes but none of them were true copies as the dimensions didn't match Guilds and they only used solid tops with Laminated backs and sides. They had a 16" lower bout "Guild Look a Like" in a six string version with a flat laminated Maple back and a Flat Laminated Rosewood back, They also offered them in a 12 string version as well. The truss rod covers in the photos posted of the 16" Jumbos are actually fake as there is no adjustment at the headstock on them. They were all adjusted through the soundhole and all had single truss rods. These Guild copies did sound decent for what they were but honestly when compared to the real thing sound like Half of a Guild. I believe the models numbers were F390s, F390MS for the 6 string models and F395s or F395MS for the 12 string models with the "S" designation specifying the solid top and the "M" designation specifying Maple. The problem with most of the Guild copies that Takamine made is that they were pretty much all manufactured with a shallow neck angle so by now most of them severely need a neck reset and while they are cool guitars the Neck reset normally costs more than the guitar is worth.

    As far as other Takamine copies of Martins and Gallaghers they sound as good as the real Deal even with the laminated sides and backs. I have a 1976 F375-SH which is the copy of a Martin D35 and it has the 3 piece back made of Laminated Jacaranda or a derivative of Brazilian Rosewood. The "S" designation denotes the solid top and the "H" designation denotes the herringbone binding. I also own a 1977 F362S which is a Sitka/ East Indian Rosewood version of the Gallagher Doc Watson model from the period. That was my stage guitar for years and still sounds great to this day. Overall they are Great guitars for the money if you find them reasonably priced. Problem is that lately people are asking astronomical prices for them and normally for a few more bucks you can buy the real Guild and have much more guitar for the money.

    I also own 2 Japanese made "Lawsuit" electrics which are a 1977 Aria Pro II LC 550 set neck Les Paul style guitar that blows away any Gibson Les Paul from the same era I have put it up against. I also own a Full Hollow 1981 Aria Pro II PE-175 Herb Ellis model which is an awesome copy of the Gibson ES175. It also blows every other Real 175 away I have put it up against. Lots of Bang for the buck in the late 70's/early 80's Japanese made gear. When I was a broke gigging musician these guitars were the perfect storm of quality, tone, and affordability. I don't think I would ever sell any of them for any price as they are part of the keep it forever collection to me.

    TX
    Last edited by txbumper57; 04-20-2017 at 07:54 PM.
    Guilds
    Hoboken-1960 X175, 1961 SF-II
    Westerly-1971 F612, 1976 G41-NT, 2000 SF-V, 1984 S284, 1993 JF100-NT-CRV
    Nashville C.S.-SF-IV-3 P90's w/Trem
    Corona-2003 Fleming F47-Brz RW, 2003 D55 50th Ann. Brz RW #10 of 50, 2003 X160 Rockabilly, 2003 SF-III-90
    Conn.-2011 GSR D50 Coco, 2013 R-30S, 2013 Orph 12 Fret Slope, 2013 Orph Jumbo, 2014 Orph Burst 000-12 Fret 12 String S.H. RW, 2014 Orph 000 12 fret SH MH, 2012 F50-DTAR, 2013 F50R-DTAR, 2014 F512-DTAR, 2014 D55-RS
    70 T-bird 2x12 Amp
    93 Sequoia Amp

  3. #13
    Very cool - great info - thanks TX! Ibanez copies of the same era similar to Taka as far as quality...?
    Last edited by Bonneville88; 04-20-2017 at 08:01 PM.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by txbumper57 View Post
    As far as other Takamine copies of Martins and Gallaghers they sound as good as the real Deal even with the laminated sides and backs. I have a 1976 F375-SH which is the copy of a Martin D35 and it has the 3 piece back made of Laminated Jacaranda or a derivative of Brazilian Rosewood. The "S" designation denotes the solid top...

    TX
    and Tex, I believe you have just proved the "90% of the guitars sounds comes from the top anyway"...so who cares about laminate back and sides....

    That D35 copy is like the one Tak I wanted a while back....those are sweet! I had an F350 that was my first real acoustic, it sounded fantastic, all laminiate even, and maple b/s. I would still be playing it to this day had I not left it in a bay window couch outside its case one night in dead of winter of Massachuesetts. I heard the next split apart and thought I was dreaming. Till I woke up.
    Wood

    1971 D25 Flatback--The "Br"
    https://soundcloud.com/woody-adams/sets/not-metal

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Westerly Wood View Post
    and Tex, I believe you have just proved the "90% of the guitars sounds comes from the top anyway"...so who cares about laminate back and sides....

    That D35 copy is like the one Tak I wanted a while back....those are sweet! I had an F350 that was my first real acoustic, it sounded fantastic, all laminiate even, and maple b/s. I would still be playing it to this day had I not left it in a bay window couch outside its case one night in dead of winter of Massachuesetts. I heard the next split apart and thought I was dreaming. Till I woke up.
    Ouch Wood! I had a F350 as well for awhile, Great Guitar. As far as the tone of laminate to solid wood, The great tone of the Takamine Laminated Dreads didn't really transfer to the Jumbo Guild Copies Takamine was making. I guess the laminate on the bigger body was muting some of the tone because they literally sounded like Half a guitar next to the real thing and extremely thin. I am almost positive that the shape, surface area, and amount of volume plays a big role in the sound of Laminate back and sides guitars.

    TX
    Guilds
    Hoboken-1960 X175, 1961 SF-II
    Westerly-1971 F612, 1976 G41-NT, 2000 SF-V, 1984 S284, 1993 JF100-NT-CRV
    Nashville C.S.-SF-IV-3 P90's w/Trem
    Corona-2003 Fleming F47-Brz RW, 2003 D55 50th Ann. Brz RW #10 of 50, 2003 X160 Rockabilly, 2003 SF-III-90
    Conn.-2011 GSR D50 Coco, 2013 R-30S, 2013 Orph 12 Fret Slope, 2013 Orph Jumbo, 2014 Orph Burst 000-12 Fret 12 String S.H. RW, 2014 Orph 000 12 fret SH MH, 2012 F50-DTAR, 2013 F50R-DTAR, 2014 F512-DTAR, 2014 D55-RS
    70 T-bird 2x12 Amp
    93 Sequoia Amp

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonneville88 View Post
    Very cool - great info - thanks TX! Ibanez copies of the same era similar to Taka as far as quality...?
    Some Ibanez copies were similar in Quality and some were well below the quality Tak was putting out. Takamine at the time in my opinion was beating most of the other Japanese companies in Quality of materials and Craftsmanship in their acoustic line. Ibanez did have a few nice acoustic pieces like their Gibson Jumbo Copies and a few set neck Les Paul models as well.

    TX
    Last edited by txbumper57; 04-21-2017 at 06:57 PM.
    Guilds
    Hoboken-1960 X175, 1961 SF-II
    Westerly-1971 F612, 1976 G41-NT, 2000 SF-V, 1984 S284, 1993 JF100-NT-CRV
    Nashville C.S.-SF-IV-3 P90's w/Trem
    Corona-2003 Fleming F47-Brz RW, 2003 D55 50th Ann. Brz RW #10 of 50, 2003 X160 Rockabilly, 2003 SF-III-90
    Conn.-2011 GSR D50 Coco, 2013 R-30S, 2013 Orph 12 Fret Slope, 2013 Orph Jumbo, 2014 Orph Burst 000-12 Fret 12 String S.H. RW, 2014 Orph 000 12 fret SH MH, 2012 F50-DTAR, 2013 F50R-DTAR, 2014 F512-DTAR, 2014 D55-RS
    70 T-bird 2x12 Amp
    93 Sequoia Amp

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by txbumper57 View Post
    Ouch Wood! I had a F350 as well for awhile, Great Guitar. As far as the tone of laminate to solid wood, The great tone of the Takamine Laminated Dreads didn't really transfer to the Jumbo Guild Copies Takamine was making. I guess the laminate on the bigger body was muting some of the tone because they literally sounded like Half a guitar next to the real thing and extremely thin. I am almost positive that the shape, surface area, and amount of volume plays a big role in the sound of Laminate back and sides guitars.

    TX
    yeah, got to be. I am telling you, an F350 and a K&K mini, that puppy would cut thru any mix.
    Wood

    1971 D25 Flatback--The "Br"
    https://soundcloud.com/woody-adams/sets/not-metal

  8. #18
    Now that I'm looking, finding they're for sale everywhere - pretty accurate dupe of a Martin headstock logo

    Last edited by Bonneville88; 04-21-2017 at 03:59 PM.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonneville88 View Post
    Now that I'm looking, finding they're for sale everywhere - pretty accurate dupe of a Martin headstock logo

    they are everywhere, like Guild D25s and Yamaha red labels.
    Wood

    1971 D25 Flatback--The "Br"
    https://soundcloud.com/woody-adams/sets/not-metal

  10. #20
    One of the cool things that Takamine did on their Copy Guitars was to work the Takamine name into a logo similar to the guitar model they were copying. Like pictured above on the Martin Copies they Made their Takamine logos look like the Martin Version. On the Guild Jumbo Copies they shaped the letter "T" to look like the "G" shield logo on high end Guilds. On my Gallagher Copy they made the "T" logo look almost Identical to Gallagher's Cursive "G" logo along with a wavy headstock shape to the top. On my Gallagher copy they even used the same snowflake inlays that Gallagher used on the bridge and fretboard markers. I can't tell you how many people came up to me over the years to tell me they loved the way My Gallagher sounded after seeing me play it live on stage, LOL! They almost fell out when they found out it was a 1977 Takamine.

    TX
    Guilds
    Hoboken-1960 X175, 1961 SF-II
    Westerly-1971 F612, 1976 G41-NT, 2000 SF-V, 1984 S284, 1993 JF100-NT-CRV
    Nashville C.S.-SF-IV-3 P90's w/Trem
    Corona-2003 Fleming F47-Brz RW, 2003 D55 50th Ann. Brz RW #10 of 50, 2003 X160 Rockabilly, 2003 SF-III-90
    Conn.-2011 GSR D50 Coco, 2013 R-30S, 2013 Orph 12 Fret Slope, 2013 Orph Jumbo, 2014 Orph Burst 000-12 Fret 12 String S.H. RW, 2014 Orph 000 12 fret SH MH, 2012 F50-DTAR, 2013 F50R-DTAR, 2014 F512-DTAR, 2014 D55-RS
    70 T-bird 2x12 Amp
    93 Sequoia Amp

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