Guild OM-240CE Westerly Archback - problems ???

davismanLV

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Al, I'm in TOTAL AGREEMENT!! And this is exactly what we feared would happen..... This is one instance where I'm sorry to be right.
 

adorshki

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It would be cool if they would start cranking out arched backs in Oxnard. I bet they would sound pretty sweet. I have not met a Guild arched back that I didn't like though... That is why I own one :)

Missed this earlier.
F55's gonna be arched maple, and I'm confident they'll be shipping this year as they've formally announced that on their site.


Be cool if Oxnard decided to add the D25 arched back into the line. Get the press back up and humming. "Turn those machines back on"! 😀
Got a soft spot for arched '25's myself, but I'm not holding my breath, while they've got the MIC version to cover the low end/entry level.
And the D25 was Guild's entry-level dread since the day it came out, until the D4.
I just hope the Westerly Collection is as good a "gateway drug" as the GAD's were.
:tranquillity:
 

D30Man

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It's got nothing to do with whether they join here or start looking for info, it's the proliferation of ads using just the term "Westerly" to refer to the new instruments.
It's all about blurring the historical significance of the Westerly factory. This is the kind of stuff that internet myths are made of.
This is the kind of post that'll inevitably wind up on the Acoustic Guitar Forum
"Thomann told me they're having a lot of QC problems with Westerly Guilds".
See what I mean?
We already have to deal with the "pre-and-post Fender" myth, that Fender didn't take 'em over until Corona ad that late Westerlys are the best because Fender hadn't screwed 'em up yet.
You're right, the folks who actually join here are either already knowledgable or looking for the truth, but I'm not worried about members.
It's all those disingenuous sellers and folks that don't look for that kind of resource that keep myths alive and growing.
And ads from sellers calling MIC instruments "Westerly Guilds" just feed the myth making.

On the larger scale I can see your point Al. More than anything I think your point about disingenuous sellers raises what would be my biggest concern with this.

I was isolating the issue in relation to this forum only with my response.

Revolt away sir.

And yes MIC's have been a gateway drug for many. Mine was a 94' D-4.. westerly... Rhode Island that is...
 

fronobulax

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An alternative view. Cordoba bought Guild so that they could make money selling guitars. If they can't make money then they go out of business. Period. So Cordoba's most important job - the one that if they screw up, nothing else matters - is selling new instruments.

Someone at Cordoba thought that they needed names to distinguish product lines. They had inherited Newark Street for electrics. FMIC had established a naming convention that linked new Guilds to historic Guild factory locations. So the Westerly Collection name makes a lot of sense in that context and given that the goal is to sell new guitars and NOT eliminate confusion in the secondary/used market it is hard to fault that decision.

Confusion in/with the secondary market is nothing new for Guild. I was researching a '70's D55 for a friend and the first thing I learned is that Guild used the same model numbers for the new GAD series that they used in the 1970's so after I searched for D55 I had to weed out the GADs from the Westerlys. They did it again when dealers started listing the Newark Street Starfire bass as just a Starfire bass and I was looking for vintage.

So, until someone can come up with a probable (as opposed to possible) way in which calling something the Westerly Collection sells fewer newer guitars than another name, Cordoba's choice makes sense.

It is not popular at LTG because the new market has never been as important at LTG than the used/vintage market. Don't make me find all the threads with statements like "I will never buy a New Hartford Guild because the only Guilds worthy of the name were made in Westerly, with an occasional exception for Hoboken".

I'm going to get my coffee and hope the caffeine helps this headache because I am obviously more cranky than usual.

:)
 

adorshki

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And yes MIC's have been a gateway drug for many. Mine was a 94' D-4.. westerly... Rhode Island that is...
I'm thinking that's just a case of awkward wording (and primarily for any "newbies" who might be reading), but D-4's were "all-American", although as the entry-level Guild dread of its time, would certainly qualify as a "gateway".
My "gateway guitar" was a '96 D25.
Fender didn't bring in Made in China instruments until the Guild Acoustic Design series appeared in the spring '04 price list, Corona era.
And didn't mean to sound overbearing and thanks for acknowledging your understanding of my "larger picture" intent.
"Disingenuous Sellers" have been one of my pet peeves ever since they all used verbiage lifted straight from the MIRC website to reassure buyers that the new-but-unwarranted MIRC refurbs that Fender flooded the market with at closure of Tacoma had been "Inspected by my luthier".
Yeah, sure, if you stretch the definition to mean that MIRC was everybody's luthier in the case of the liquidated Tacoma Guilds.
 
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D30Man

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I'm thinking that's just a case of awkward wording (and primarily for any "newbies" who might be reading), but D-4's were "all-American", although as the entry-level Guild dread of its time, would certainly qualify as a "gateway".
My "gateway guitar" was a '96 D25.
Fender didn't bring in Made in China instruments until the Guild Acoustic Design series appeared in the spring '04 price list, Corona era.
And didn't mean to sound overbearing and thanks for acknowledging your understanding of my "larger picture" intent.
"Disingenuous Sellers" have been one of my pet peeves ever since they all used verbiage lifted straight from the MIRC website to reassure buyers that the new-but-unwarranted MIRC refurbs that Fender flooded the market with at closure of Tacoma had been "Inspected by my luthier".
Yeah, sure, if you stretch the definition to mean that MIRC was everybody's luthier in the case of the liquidated Tacoma Guilds.

Awkward wording indeed. It was a Westerly Era True American and it was a damn fine gateway Guild. I stand by my "best neck I have ever played on a Guild" remarks on other posts.

Hey listen no perception of your being overbearing in the least. I look to you guys for knowledge on this subject. I may not always agree with the position regarding certain items, but I always respect and value your insights.
 

Nuuska

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adorshki wrote : @ NUUSKA:
I'd actually suggest trying to go higher in Thomann's organization to get a "straight answer", if it's not an onerous task.
The multiple reports of bridge lifts are out of character with previous experience with the MIC guitars, but now I think Walter's explanation is much more likely the real problem, from somebody with true specialized knowledge about both the line and what's happening in Europe.


Hello

I am back from few gigs - I had sent another question to Thomann asking about the quality of other Westerly-line Guilds - they replied at friday saying, that other models have not had any issues - so maybe I am aiming my googles at other models - perhaps the maple Jumbo Junior to extend sound palette of my guitars.

Meanwhile I keep picking away with 1975 F50R etc
 

chazmo

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There was a recent thread with multiple problems that one member had with several examples of new (Westerly Series) MIC product. Or, maybe it was the MIK (Newark St. Series) electrics? Anyone have a link to that? It was, indeed, concerning -- I remember at the time. I can't recall if those reports were for MIC archbacks or just the evolved GADs/100-series.
 

JohnW63

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Cazmo,

I think it was a quest to find a good NS Starfire, that kept getting someone guitars with flaws, that had to be sent back.
 

davismanLV

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Here's the deal. I think these dealers that do a huge business have LOTS of guitars coming in and going out. However, any retail situation (which may be different from guitars) I've been in have made us CHECK IN THE DELIVERIES and accept them. Now with dairy products and meat the stuff that has "USE BY" dates then you have to be very careful. And even then, we've called and said, "S'cuse me?? Our milk and dairy stuff expired TODAY!! NOPE!! Get back here soon with better stuff!!" And they do. But you have to watch them. Now, I don't know how guitar stores go but I'd be watching what comes in and have the deliveries checked over and have someone (who knows something) do an inspection and make sure that the goods are what you want to sell. And if not, contact them immediately and send it back and get replacements! I understand that guitars are not dairy products, but they are shipments from dealers and you accept the deliveries. If they give you bad stuff and you keep sending out crappy goods over and over..... whom do you blame?

Just thinking here.....
 

chazmo

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Tom, good points about food, of course.

Were you ranting (always welcome) or were you addressing the question/concern that Thomann had disparaging comments about new GADs (excuse me, Westerly series)? :)

Oh, and thanks, John, for reminding me that it was the Newark St. series products (not the Westerly series) that had QC (or delivery) problems.

This is all pretty bad news, as far as I can tell. I'd really like to know the details of Thomann's complaint. As mentioned earlier, these guys were a serious distributor of Guild in Europe. Maybe they have a beef with the new owners.
 

fronobulax

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Here's the deal. I think these dealers that do a huge business have LOTS of guitars coming in and going out. However, any retail situation (which may be different from guitars) I've been in have made us CHECK IN THE DELIVERIES and accept them. Now with dairy products and meat the stuff that has "USE BY" dates then you have to be very careful. And even then, we've called and said, "S'cuse me?? Our milk and dairy stuff expired TODAY!! NOPE!! Get back here soon with better stuff!!" And they do. But you have to watch them. Now, I don't know how guitar stores go but I'd be watching what comes in and have the deliveries checked over and have someone (who knows something) do an inspection and make sure that the goods are what you want to sell. And if not, contact them immediately and send it back and get replacements! I understand that guitars are not dairy products, but they are shipments from dealers and you accept the deliveries. If they give you bad stuff and you keep sending out crappy goods over and over..... whom do you blame?

Just thinking here.....

Not quite comparable because these were ordered and paid for before delivery, but my local dealer did not unpack the instruments when they arrived and he offered to wait and do so until we (the buyers) were present. I'm sure if we just came in and picked up the boxed guitars we could have done so. That said, I have watched shop employees unpack instruments and my sense from observation is that if there is anything wrong that makes the instrument not play well they will find it, but the cosmetic inspection is much more casual. So my sense is that the store either needs to find the problem in about ten minutes or it will be on the wall giving the customer the opportunity to find something to complain about.
 

davismanLV

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chazmo, I was just kinda wondering out loud. I'd imagine these guitars for ONLINE sales come in boxed and ready to ship and wondered if they just slap a new label on them and send them out. Seems kinda silly to unpack and repack just to ship. But if guitars keep coming back from their intended new owners as unacceptable, then you'd be a little pissy about the Quality Control leaving the factory. But I dunno.....

frono, I think in a real brick & mortar situation, if it's going on the wall, then of course it's gonna be unpacked and looked at. But maybe if it's going to an online customer? I'm just wondering how that happens, you know? I think it's great that they let YOU open the box for a guitar you paid for, because you're THERE and it's like a second Christmas or something!!

I'd like to hear the story from Thomann about what happened (repeatedly?) to cause the complaint. Just curious.
 

adorshki

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Awkward wording indeed. It was a Westerly Era True American and it was a damn fine gateway Guild.
In the spirit of "background info", then:
The "True American" series was introduced on the Dreadnought Cutaway Electrics largely as a "promotional gimmick", primarily to proclaim that these were the best sounding A/E's on the market and were made in America at an affordable price in an era when the Japanese makers were really making a dent in the market (early '90's).
They really had no special build details other than the TRC, and by '95 the TRC was showing up on D4's and D25's (I have one as well), and I think they even made it onto DV-6's and maybe even higher level dreads, just can't recall for sure.
I suspect they had quite a few and just started using 'em up around that time.
But I dig mine for sure.
When I got it, buying an American-built guitar was mandatory for me.
I stand by my "best neck I have ever played on a Guild" remarks on other posts.
And I've also mentioned several times that the neck on the '25 sold me, too.
When final decision day came, I had the opportunity to A/B it with a DCE-1, (the DCE version of the D4) and even though I really wanted that cutaway and pickup, the '25's neck was the deciding factor.
When I was ready to ring it up, the salesman said "Let me get a brand new one for you from the back", and I said "Nope, THIS ONE".
:friendly_wink:

Hey listen no perception of your being overbearing in the least. I look to you guys for knowledge on this subject. I may not always agree with the position regarding certain items, but I always respect and value your insights.
Appreciate it, and "Ditto that".
Just one of those things better said than not said, when I'm in my "pedantic" mode and forget to use smileys.
:biggrin-new:
 

adorshki

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Hello
I am back from few gigs - I had sent another question to Thomann asking about the quality of other Westerly-line Guilds - they replied at friday saying, that other models have not had any issues - so maybe I am aiming my googles at other models - perhaps the maple Jumbo Junior to extend sound palette of my guitars.

Thanks Nuuska, very interesting feedback indeed.
I now respect their precise answer about other models and have greater confidence in the original report.
I'd still be very surprised if this will be a "permanent" problem, I suspect it's only a particular "batch" of guitars and that they'll be able to correct ther problem in time for you to finally get one instead of compromising on the smaller and shorter scaled "Jumbo Junior".
 

Nuuska

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Ladies & gentlemen

I just telephoned Musikhaus Thomann and talked to my guy - he said they are not the importer for Guild and therefore do not check the guitars, that they sell online - only the ones that go into their store. So we are talking about customer returns.

Then I called Gitaar Bizz in Netherlands - they are importing Guild for Germany. A very friendly person told me, that there has been some complaints about ELECTRIC sound on OM-240CE - even though it uses the same pickup as other Westerly-series guitars. So no problems with neck, bridge or body. That is good to hear.

My past experience with pickups, that are under saddle tells, that if the slot for saddle is even slightly too snug, you will end up with thin sound, because the connection between saddle and pickup is not like it should be. Same goes, if the connection between pickup and bottom of the slot is not tight. That is quite easy to detect by pressing the saddle with fingers while strumming and listening to amplified sound. It is also relative easy to fix. If the slot is too loose and saddle is leaning towars neck, it will also produce thin sound - new saddle with correct dimensions will correct that.

I also understand, that Guild is aware of this problem and might - hopefully - do something about it. BTW - do they ever chime in on these conversations ???

So it looks after all, that I just might follow my original plan and get me OM-240CE for summercabin. No amps there anyway.
 

fronobulax

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Ladies & gentlemen

I just telephoned Musikhaus Thomann and talked to my guy - he said they are not the importer for Guild and therefore do not check the guitars, that they sell online - only the ones that go into their store. So we are talking about customer returns.

Then I called Gitaar Bizz in Netherlands - they are importing Guild for Germany. A very friendly person told me, that there has been some complaints about ELECTRIC sound on OM-240CE - even though it uses the same pickup as other Westerly-series guitars. So no problems with neck, bridge or body. That is good to hear.

My past experience with pickups, that are under saddle tells, that if the slot for saddle is even slightly too snug, you will end up with thin sound, because the connection between saddle and pickup is not like it should be. Same goes, if the connection between pickup and bottom of the slot is not tight. That is quite easy to detect by pressing the saddle with fingers while strumming and listening to amplified sound. It is also relative easy to fix. If the slot is too loose and saddle is leaning towars neck, it will also produce thin sound - new saddle with correct dimensions will correct that.

I also understand, that Guild is aware of this problem and might - hopefully - do something about it. BTW - do they ever chime in on these conversations ???

So it looks after all, that I just might follow my original plan and get me OM-240CE for summercabin. No amps there anyway.

Thank you for this. I especially appreciate your statement of what the actual problem was - "electric sound" and discussion of causes.

As for Cordoba...

LTG remains independent of Cordoba and I think everyone in a position to make changes agrees with leaving it that way. When CMG first bought Guild there was some behind the scenes email traffic. Reading LTG but not posting was consistent with CMG's planned social media policy. So I expect them to read but not respond. That said, I do believe they read and react. There have been a couple cases where the timing of an LTG discussion followed by a comment/posting from Guild on other social media suggests to me that CMG was responding to comments and concerns here. There have also been reports where something discussed on LTG was enough of a concern that an LTG member contacted CMG directly and sometimes responses were received and reported here. Other times the silence started a discussion about the quality of CMGs personal communications and the best way to get a response. These threads were more common during the first year or so than they are now. I think once they had a running factory in the USA they tightened up and focused their customer relations.
 
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