question on top runout

Hello members,
I have a Guild F2512e, the MIC westerly collection 12-string maple jumbo. I like it. Plays and sounds great. Attractive with nice fit and finish, and it was priced modestly. Really the only thing off-putting is a spruce top with what seems like a lot of grain run out (35 degrees or so tilt off of dead straight up and down). Looking down at the top reveals very tight grain until outside the width of the bridge where it widens just a bit. No problems there but looking perpendicular through the sound hole run out is apparent. As stated, I like this guitar in nearly all respects, but when does run out become a structural issue, rather than a minor cosmetic defect? Thank you for your replies.
T

I am personally a fan of runout, bear claw, and odd figuring in the grain on spruce top guitars (and finish crazing!). I could stare at that stuff for days, and sometimes I do. I dont think runout is a structural concern. more of a cosmetic phenomenon. but i'm not the final authority on this. Others will chime in. lets see a picture of the runout!

More an appearance issue than a structural one. Problems can arise if you need to remove bridge, pickguard glued directly, etc. Here's what Taylor has to say on the issue.
https://www.taylorguitars.com/blog/ask-bob/ask-bob-spruce-top-runout

traveler said:

Really the only thing off-putting is a spruce top with what seems like a lot of grain run out (35 degrees or so tilt off of dead straight up and down). Looking down at the top reveals very tight grain until outside the width of the bridge where it widens just a bit. No problems there but looking perpendicular through the sound hole run out is apparent. As stated, I like this guitar in nearly all respects, but when does run out become a structural issue, rather than a minor cosmetic defect?

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Hello traveler,

Maybe it's the way you've described what's bothering you, but I have the idea that you're mixing up 'not entirely quarter-sawn' and 'run out'.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

traveler said:

...Really the only thing off-putting is a spruce top with what seems like a lot of grain run out....

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A photo would help pinpoint what you're talking about, but it sounds like something that makes the guitar unique - the top grain - giving it that certain mojo. :untroubled: But what's most important:

traveler said:

I have a Guild F2512e....

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That looks to be such a great jumbo 12-string! Major congrats! I'm not sure the standard video demo for that does it justice. Perhaps you could do one. :applause::encouragement:

Cougar, I don't think photos would help much, the face of the top is rather unremarkable and it's difficult to photograph the end grain through the sound hole without removing the strings. But thanks again for your reply.

Hans, perhaps I am confusing things as I thought run out was the result of the top not being quite quarter sawn. I now understand a perfectly quarter sawed top could still yield run out which does make sense. I would be happy to be enlightened more. Thank you and thank you all.
T

mavuser said:

I am personally a fan of runout, bear claw, and odd figuring in the grain on spruce top guitars (and finish crazing!). I could stare at that stuff for days, and sometimes I do. I dont think runout is a structural concern. more of a cosmetic phenomenon. but i'm not the final authority on this. Others will chime in. lets see a picture of the runout!

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I am with you Mavuser! My Eastman E6D has some bear claw and I dig it.

I've seen some very high end vintage Martins with severe runout, and it does not seem to enter into the value equation.

If I had my druthers, I'd prefer little or no runout, but if it's a seriously good instrument, it's positive factors will usually outweigh & overwhelm any cosmetic issues.

traveler said:

Cougar, I don't think photos would help much, the face of the top is rather unremarkable and it's difficult to photograph the end grain through the sound hole without removing the strings. But thanks again for your reply.

Hans, perhaps I am confusing things as I thought run out was the result of the top not being quite quarter sawn. I now understand a perfectly quarter sawed top could still yield run out which does make sense. I would be happy to be enlightened more. Thank you and thank you all.
T

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Maybe Frank Ford can lend better insight:
http://www.lutherie.net/frankford.runout.html