Color codes for Tacoma Antique Burst?

nrand

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This is to do with me 'new' D55, built 12 December 2005.

There are quite a few chips in the lacquer, mostly on the neck binding.

Is there a color code for any of the Guild finishes available?

It would be great if I could color match this for drop filling.
 

adorshki

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This is to do with me 'new' D55, built 12 December 2005.

There are quite a few chips in the lacquer, mostly on the neck binding.

Is there a color code for any of the Guild finishes available?

It would be great if I could color match this for drop filling.

HI Rand:
I see a new member, welcome aboard!
In all my years here I've never come across any reference to a color-matching-by-code scheme with Guild.
Further complicating things is the paucity of info out there for Tacomas.
Fender was lax about updating specs, but that version of ATB is likely the same as Corona's and it might be possible to get Corona's codes if they exist, as Fender introduced a bunch of "Fender" colors to the brand when they relocated there.
That was from '02-'04 just before the move to Tacoma, where color selections became very restricted .
If all you're doing is drop-filling, I suspect the end result would blend in pretty well in any case.
The fresh NCL acts like a solvent, re-dissolving and blending into the surrounding lacquer, and will probably leach a bit of color from the surrounding area anyway, before it hardens.
Hopefully some of our resident builders can add other useful info.
 

adorshki

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This is to do with me 'new' D55, built 12 December 2005.

There are quite a few chips in the lacquer, mostly on the neck binding.

Is there a color code for any of the Guild finishes available?

It would be great if I could color match this for drop filling.

HI Rand:
I see a new member, welcome aboard!
In all my years here I've never come across any reference to a color-matching-by-code scheme with Guild.
They did show "Color Codes" in the later price lists to facilitate ordering but I don't know if those correlated with any paint/stain maker's codes or if any of 'em are even still available here let alone Australia.
Further complicating things is the paucity of info out there for Tacomas.
Fender was lax about updating specs, but that version of ATB is likely the same as Corona's and it might be possible to get Corona's codes if they exist, as Fender introduced a bunch of "Fender" colors to the brand when they relocated there.
That was from '02-'04 just before the move to Tacoma, where color selections became very restricted .
If all you're doing is drop-filling, I suspect the end result would blend in pretty well in any case.
The fresh NCL acts like a solvent, dissolving and blending in with the existing finish, and will probably leach a bit of color from the surrounding area anyway, before it hardens.
Hopefully some of our resident builders can add other useful info.
 

nrand

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Thank you Al
I will have a look into the Corona story to see what I can find.
I have noticed that a few tacoma D55 owners have reported the same issue over time. The Tacoma lacquer seems a little thicker than other guitars I own/have owned, and given the binding design on the necks, with the side of the binding lacquered and the top, as a continuation of the ebony board, unlacquered I do wonder if this is a vulnerability in the design.
 

davismanLV

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Steward-MacDonald has drop-fill lacquer pens specifically formulated for what you are trying to do. They have a color called "tobacco" I think. It's been a long time since I looked, but was going to use it on a project once. Take a look and see what you think. They have other colors as well. Look under finishing supplies. Oh and welcome to LTG!! :encouragement:

Stew-Mac
 

nrand

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Steward-MacDonald has drop-fill lacquer pens specifically formulated for what you are trying to do. They have a color called "tobacco" I think. It's been a long time since I looked, but was going to use it on a project once. Take a look and see what you think. They have other colors as well. Look under finishing supplies. Oh and welcome to LTG!! :encouragement:

Stew-Mac

Thank you for this link. Unfortunately Stew Mac will not ship and solvent related items outside the US. I might just ask Brendan Mason at Real Guitars to do it for me when he does the set up.
His band Madder Lake crossed a few interesting paths along the way, yet he is a really humble down to earth character who treats each guitar as his own.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxLUUxl0EO8
 

Big-Al

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Is it mostly edges and corners that have wear or chips? It won't fill in the missing texture from chipped lacquer, but I've had pretty good results using simple furniture touch-up markers from the local hardware store. Granted, this was on some pretty well-worn old guitars and there was still missing lacquer (or poly) when I was done with them, but I was able to match the surrounding color well enough to camouflage the damage from a few feet away. I've also had pretty good results drop-filling afterwards with CA glue, but that was on poly finished guitars. A nitro finished D55 is going to be much more difficult to blend in drop-fill repairs without damaging the surrounding finish.
 

adorshki

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A nitro finished D55 is going to be much more difficult to blend in drop-fill repairs without damaging the surrounding finish.

I've actually used Sally Hansen's Clear Nail polish for a couple of dings maybe up to 1/8" or so, and to fill in some strum-worn areas in the grain lines around the fretboard extension of my D25.
It's actual NCL lacquer, just not as strong as the stuff they spray in original manufacture.
The brush that comes in the bottle is perfect for putting an exact drop into a chip, or painting a very thin line along the grain where strumming had worn down the original finish. I just wanted to seal it up again but it worked better than I expected both cosmetically and durability-wise.
AS mentioned, new NCL will dissolve old NCL and blend into it, it won't actually damage the old finish. But the size of the area to be patched might affect how well the edges blend before re-curing. Drop-filling's one thing, patching's a little different, there's gonna need to be multiple layers and buffing between 'em to get a good match with existing finish, gloss and depth-wise.
I would not even attempt using Superglue (CA) to drop-fill NCL though.
 
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nrand

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I have showed the chips to Brendan Mason at Real Guitars and he believes he can repair the chips even though they are fairly substantial.
He plans to do a succession of drop fills to build up the lacquer.
 

Big-Al

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I've actually used Sally Hansen's Clear Nail polish for a couple of dings maybe up to 1/8" or so, and to fill in some strum-worn areas in the grain lines around the fretboard extension of my D25.
It's actual NCL lacquer, just not as strong as the stuff they spray in original manufacture.
The brush that comes in the bottle is perfect for putting an exact drop into a chip, or painting a very thin line along the grain where strumming had worn down the original finish. I just wanted to seal it up again but it worked better than I expected both cosmetically and durability-wise.
AS mentioned, new NCL will dissolve old NCL and blend into it, it won't actually damage the old finish. But the size of the area to be patched might affect how well the edges blend before re-curing. Drop-filling's one thing, patching's a little different, there's gonna need to be multiple layers and buffing between 'em to get a good match with existing finish, gloss and depth-wise.
I would not even attempt using Superglue (CA) to drop-fill NCL though.

Agreed. The difficulty with using Lacquer is that it dries by evaporation. This can make the filled chips look like craters no matter how carefully it is applied. It will take multiple fills with lots of extremely careful scraping, sanding, and buffing to make it blend in, and the filled in areas may continue to slowly shrink long after the spot appears dry. If the OP's repair guy is good, he can probably pull it off fairly well.

With a poly finish, I've been able to apply a small dollop of CA to the chip. It will harden in pretty much the same size and shape as how it is applied so I can often accomplish the fill in one application, especially if the CA is in gel form. A little careful scraping of the hardened spot with a single edge razor blade and a little light sanding and buffing and the chip almost disappears. If I mess things up, I can always wipe it off with a little acetone and try it again. Don't try that with a nitro lacquer finish unless you like the look of bare wood. :)
 
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adorshki

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Thank you Al
I will have a look into the Corona story to see what I can find.
I have noticed that a few tacoma D55 owners have reported the same issue over time. The Tacoma lacquer seems a little thicker than other guitars I own/have owned, and given the binding design on the necks, with the side of the binding lacquered and the top, as a continuation of the ebony board, unlacquered I do wonder if this is a vulnerability in the design.
It's occurring to me that since a 'burst is actually achieved with varying the spray density of at least one of the pigments, you may need to be looking for the identity of one of those, I assume the darkest one.
Mr. Mason sounds like the kind of fellow who knows his way around these things and I suspect he'll be able to perform an acceptable blend with material;s he has access to.
Re lacquer thickness at Tacoma, haven't heard about that being a "problem" here, but certainly not out of the question, might even have ts roots in Corona.
Fender built a new spray booth in Corona to be able to apply the nitro to the Guild acoustics and there were early reports of finish problems, and some seconds were let out as "Finish Blems".
My D40, about a "mid" Corona era, has the smoothest and best gloss of all 3 but it's definitely thicker than the 2 late Westerlys.
Never seen any indication about whether that booth was moved to Tacoma like some of the other Guild tooling, but it could be easily set up to run other finishes and could have been used for the electrics, so suspect Fender kept it in Corona.
But they may have transferred the "thick finish" philosophy up to Tacoma if not the booth.
The last paint codes I can post here are in the '01 Westerly price list, way down at the bottom.
I know some of the colors especially for electrics, are actually "Fender" colors, as the electrics were being produced in Corona before the acoustics and they continued after the "official" relocation in '02.
Don't know if they changed the "Antique 'burst" pigments in Coroan but foggy memory says teh colors seem the same on samples in photos I've seen here, anyway it might give a starting point:
http://westerlyguildguitars.com/files/Guild2001.pdf
Antique Burst is code "37"

One 'burst that was initiated in Tacoma was the "Iced Tea 'burst" which was yellower/redder than the Antique, I actually like it a little better, but it would be identified as "ITB" after the model number on the label, just to be sure.
Here's another interesting tidbit;
Fender's color code chart, and after all these years, code 37 is still "Antique Burst":
https://support.fender.com/hc/en-us/articles/214034783-Instrument-Finish-Color-Chart
Mr Mason might be able to find out something after all, if he knows somebody at Fender.
 

nrand

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I have decided that the issue with the chipping on mine is due to the nitro being too thick and / or too brittle.
It takes only a small knock to crack the finish - it shatters like glass.
I have never in 40 years of owning lots of guitars seen anything like this.
I think we decided that the Tacoma people must have been using remaining stock of finish from the Fender Corona Factory - as the problems seem similar.
Anyway, I am off to the luthier with it tomorrow, as my Martin neck reset is now done.
I'll see what magic Brendan can bring to this problem.
 
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