Ngd: S-275

rampside

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
3,118
Reaction score
410
Location
Minnesota's Iron Range
Guild Total
4
Got it!!! Thanks, Gary.

As it has always been, I don't pull out that Nature Boy to often, but now with my slow (very) and steady mastery of the fret board on the acoustics, I'm ready to let it out and see what kind of fire that sleeping dragon really has. :highly_amused:
 
Last edited:

JohnW63

Enlightened Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2012
Messages
6,295
Reaction score
2,217
Location
Southern California
Guild Total
4
I've never really WANTED my guitars to have a thinner sound, to be honest. In fact, I rarely go to the bridge pickup on any of them. Generally just neck and neck/middle for my G&L strat style and neck or both on my two pickup guitars. I guess than means I don't need to waste my money on guitars with a phase switch. Now, a coil tap humbucker might be something I would use.
 

GAD

Reverential Morlock
Über-Morlock
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
22,593
Reaction score
17,815
Location
NJ (The nice part)
Guild Total
112
I've never really WANTED my guitars to have a thinner sound, to be honest. In fact, I rarely go to the bridge pickup on any of them. Generally just neck and neck/middle for my G&L strat style and neck or both on my two pickup guitars. I guess than means I don't need to waste my money on guitars with a phase switch. Now, a coil tap humbucker might be something I would use.

It's funny how different people can be. For years I only ever used the bridge pickup and never used the neck. As I got older I learned to appreciate all the different settings, but I still rarely use the guitar's tone knobs.

As for a coil-split capability, I wish they all had that. My Nightbirds have coil split AND phase which leads to all sorts of combinations!
 

Quantum Strummer

Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
2,382
Reaction score
118
Location
Michigan
I didn't care much for "out of phase" sounds 'til last year when I got my '73 S-100. IMO having a dedicated volume pot for each pickup makes all the difference. When I switch to OOP I also back off the bridge pickup's volume a notch or so. This subtly reduces the amount of phase cancellation, filling out the sound. It's the difference between thin (meh) and hollow (yeah!).

-Dave-
 

Zelja

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2011
Messages
3,907
Reaction score
350
Location
Sydney, Australia
^^^
100% agree QA - I do the same thing but's it's generally the neck pickup which I roll back a bit (e.g. go from the middle posn in the verse & then change to the bridge for more guts/volume in the chorus).

There's a lot of tonal change in 1.5 markings from max on the volume pot.

GAD, great description on phase thing. Nice diagram on the 275. Seems like it's wired as independent volume wiring with the pickup wiring going to the middle instead of the outside lug on the wiring pot - i.e. when both pickups selected & one volume is all the way down the other pickup is still active?
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,791
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Got it!!! Thanks, Gary.

As it has always been, I don't pull out that Nature Boy to often, but now with my slow (very) and steady mastery of the fret board on the acoustics, I'm ready to let it out and see what kind of fire that sleeping dragon really has. :highly_amused:

If you're a Peter Green's Fleetwod Mac fan, you'll love these reads:
https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/The_Secret_of_Peter_Greens_Tone
http://www.guitaraficionado.com/the-deep-secret-behind-peter-greens-magic-1959-les-paul-tone.html

There've been stories about his out-of-phase Les Paul floating around for years.
's funny the same guitar could yield "Oh Well" and "Green Manalishi" (a real screamer) and "Black Magic Woman" and "Albatross", which is the one I think best expresses what people usually mean by the "out-of-phase"' sound.
Of course we know it's always the woodsman and not the axe, but "Albatross" is the definitive "clear as water" tone IMO.
GAD, you mentioned loving Martin Barre's work on Aqualung a while back.
Trust me on this, I love early Fleetwood Mac as much as Aqualung so if you dont actually know those tunes, check 'em out!
Production values are just as magnificent as Aqualung, just a bit different engineering.
 

Quantum Strummer

Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
2,382
Reaction score
118
Location
Michigan
Albatross is a fav of mine for sure! Minimal & lovely. (It's also used as the theme music for the mindbending '70s Faßbender TV film Welt Am Draht (World On A Wire). Simulated worlds within simulations within…)

-Dave-
 

GAD

Reverential Morlock
Über-Morlock
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
22,593
Reaction score
17,815
Location
NJ (The nice part)
Guild Total
112
If you're a Peter Green's Fleetwod Mac fan, you'll love these reads:
https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/The_Secret_of_Peter_Greens_Tone
http://www.guitaraficionado.com/the-deep-secret-behind-peter-greens-magic-1959-les-paul-tone.html

There've been stories about his out-of-phase Les Paul floating around for years.
's funny the same guitar could yield "Oh Well" and "Green Manalishi" (a real screamer) and "Black Magic Woman" and "Albatross", which is the one I think best expresses what people usually mean by the "out-of-phase"' sound.
Of course we know it's always the woodsman and not the axe, but "Albatross" is the definitive "clear as water" tone IMO.
GAD, you mentioned loving Martin Barre's work on Aqualung a while back.
Trust me on this, I love early Fleetwood Mac as much as Aqualung so if you dont actually know those tunes, check 'em out!
Production values are just as magnificent as Aqualung, just a bit different engineering.

I went through a Fleetwood Mac stage back in the mid '80s and know those tunes very well. Great stuff.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,791
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Albatross is a fav of mine for sure! Minimal & lovely. (It's also used as the theme music for the mindbending '70s Faßbender TV film Welt Am Draht (World On A Wire). Simulated worlds within simulations within…)

-Dave-

I also think a certain Paul McCartney "borrowed" it for "Sun King" on Abbey Road.....
note it was originally released in '68 and was their only UK #1 single.
What are the odds, eh?
(Edit) Oh, how about that, the Wiki page for the song makes that same claim now, it didn't the last time I looked a couple years back..
While reading that, got reminded of "Need Your Love So Bad", another one with "the tone"
Back to you, GAD...
 
Last edited:

walrus

Reverential Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Dec 23, 2006
Messages
23,957
Reaction score
8,020
Location
Massachusetts
but I still rarely use the guitar's tone knobs.

So, an actual question for you or bluesy or anybody: I assume you put them on 10 and leave it? Or is there another "setting" you like to leave it on?

walrus
 

bluesypicky

Enlightened Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
7,763
Reaction score
394
Location
Jupiter, FL.
So, an actual question for you or bluesy or anybody: I assume you put them on 10 and leave it? Or is there another "setting" you like to leave it on?
walrus

Yes I always make sure they're all the way up. Turning them down kills some of the brightness and muffles them. I really never saw the point, again, I use the amp (or external equalizer) to adjust bass/treble and anything in between.
 

rampside

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
3,118
Reaction score
410
Location
Minnesota's Iron Range
Guild Total
4
Okay now, please excuse my newbie ignorance as I'm just starting to delve into this electronic tone stuff, but wouldn't the tone knobs on the guitar in fact affect the tone in way you couldn't on the amp if you had both pickups on and the phase switch on out-of-phase?

I will mess around with that later when I'm home, but maybe you guys can enlighten me. :smile:
 

GAD

Reverential Morlock
Über-Morlock
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
22,593
Reaction score
17,815
Location
NJ (The nice part)
Guild Total
112
Okay now, please excuse my newbie ignorance as I'm just starting to delve into this electronic tone stuff, but wouldn't the tone knobs on the guitar in fact affect the tone in way you couldn't on the amp if you had both pickups on and the phase switch on out-of-phase?

I will mess around with that later when I'm home, but maybe you guys can enlighten me. :smile:

Remember that a traditional electric guitar can only remove frequencies so anything other than "all ten" is the sound of the guitar with something missing.

Most of the guitars I grew up with just didn't have any quality to the sound when the tone was rolled off and by the time you got to 8 on the dial they were just mud. Additionally, a lot of rock music is very treble-centric. I recall a famous rock star saying, when asked how he sets up his gear, that everything is on ten - the end. Some used things like treble boosters because they want that high end that they can't get from the guitar on its own. The way a traditional tone circuit in a guitar works is that it removes treble and humbucker guitars have already lost a fair bit of treble due to their design. This is why a lot of people prefer single coils.

The amp settings always seemed to allow a more precise control of the tone. There can be a lot of reasons for this, and one of them is the fact that some amps have "Active" tone controls which means they're actually capable of boosting part of the signal - a regular guitar can't do that; it can only take things away.
 

bluesypicky

Enlightened Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
7,763
Reaction score
394
Location
Jupiter, FL.
Remember that a traditional electric guitar can only remove frequencies so anything other than "all ten" is the sound of the guitar with something missing.
^This^ is what I meant by "muffled".
Turning those down while out of phase on split p/u's config, sounds crappy to me, just reading about it. :highly_amused:
 

rampside

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
3,118
Reaction score
410
Location
Minnesota's Iron Range
Guild Total
4
Just when I was starting think I was too old to learn anything. :encouragement:

This is why I love this place.:smile:
 

rampside

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
3,118
Reaction score
410
Location
Minnesota's Iron Range
Guild Total
4
Okay, let me ask it this way. From the links Adhorski so kindly posted here, I believe the out of phase tone coming from the guitar can be tweaked by dialing back one of the volume knobs by 1 or 1.5 steps or so, correct?
 

GAD

Reverential Morlock
Über-Morlock
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
22,593
Reaction score
17,815
Location
NJ (The nice part)
Guild Total
112
Okay, let me ask it this way. From the links Adhorski so kindly posted here, I believe the out of phase tone coming from the guitar can be tweaked by dialing back one of the volume knobs by 1 or 1.5 steps or so, correct?

Absolutely.
 
Top