it cometh: 67 SFB-I beauty queen

mellowgerman

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Gorgeous! So, it's a little younger than you initially thought; more like an instrument from 1970.

Ha! I guess I never thought to pull up the dating chart and check for myself! This sale has been 7 years in the making, with many conversations regarding it, back and forth between me and my buddy from whom I bought it... now I'm wondering if 1967 was ever actually said at all or if that date just materialized in my head somehow...
Either way, I suppose that gives me 3 years to prepare for her 50th birthday celebration!
 

Minnesota Flats

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So, since it wasn't made in the year you thought previously, you're crushed by disappointment and will be packing it up and sending it back?





Or not...
 

mellowgerman

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I was in need of a practice amp for my apartment... look what fell into my lap yesterday! I know it's not the most desirable of Guild amps (solid state 60watts) but it sounds pretty good for practice and they make a cute couple, right?

 

mellowgerman

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So, since it wasn't made in the year you thought previously, you're crushed by disappointment and will be packing it up and sending it back?





Or not...

Of course! At this point it may as well be a First Act, plastic Hannah Montana ukulele from Walmart!
 

mellowgerman

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New development... today, while playing my new baby and I noticed something undesirable. There was something just not 100% right with the tone. Having owned several and played tons of bisonic equipped equipped basses, I know the harmonic richness of these pickups... for some reason though, with the tone all the way "open" on 10, there was still a kind of muddiness (especially apparent when fretting anything past 7th fret on the low E) and what my ears perceived to be a overall dip in the upper mids. First I tried swapping out the E string for a different one, thinking that maybe it was a flaw like a crimp of the inner core wire or a break in the winding somewhere (which I've had once or twice with certain flatwound strings in the past). Problem persisted though with a different E string. So then I thought, worst case scenario, some part of the pickup is starting to go or there is some kind of dead resonance/frequency issue inherent to some piece of wood in the construction of the neck or center-block. But perhaps it was just a faulty connection or component in the wiring? So I pulled out the guts and took a closer look... Boom! Culprit identified. Opposite outside lugs of the tone pot each had capacitors connected to the ground! Where you would expect the normal tone cap to be, there were two .022 mfd caps; no problem there since that adds up to a pretty standard tone capacitor value. On the other side however, there was a single .022 cap running to the tone-suck switch, but in such a way that it was leeching those very missing mid frequencies even when the tone-suck switch was in the off position!!! I simply disconnected that capacitor and the entire tone-suck circuit, leaving only the bisonic, volume, tone, and output jack... revealing that magical, signature bisonic harmonic richness that I have come to covet and love. Long story short, if you have a bass with the dreadful tone-suck circuit, disconnect that thing-a-ma-bob! It's evil and stands between you and the full force and ultimate gooey goodness of the bisonic pickup!
I wonder if this was part of the reason why I always preferred the tone my 1966 SFB-I with the middle/bridge position bisonic and no tone-suck, to all of the neck position SFB-I's I had played (because I don't think I have ever played a neck-pickup SFB-I without the tone-suck switch... until now!
 

Minnesota Flats

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Glad your surgical procedure was successful. Tone suckage...well...sucks!
 

wisconsindead

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I wonder if you experience exactly what I did. I would bet that was the case. Lucky you alleviated the problem far quicker than I did lol. You lose so much treble (and output) due to that circuit. Personally, its neck pup or bust for me. Was the circuit like shown below?

B08WJ78.jpeg
 

mellowgerman

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I wonder if you experience exactly what I did. I would bet that was the case. Lucky you alleviated the problem far quicker than I did lol. You lose so much treble (and output) due to that circuit. Personally, its neck pup or bust for me. Was the circuit like shown below?

That is exactly what it looked like. I left the resistor in as I couldn't think of any way it would harm the tone, but I removed the solo .022 cap completely and simply unsoldered the tone-suck switch. Very happy with the results and my mind is boggled by why they would have made the circuit this way... I can't imagine the leeching capacitor was an oversight
 

mellowgerman

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Interesting. You left the pair of caps on there?

Yup, by my understanding they function just like a normal tone capacitor would, right? Doubled .022 caps in parallel should function just like a single .044 cap, no? That is what it sounds like to my ear now
 

wisconsindead

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Yup, by my understanding they function just like a normal tone capacitor would, right? Doubled .022 caps in parallel should function just like a single .044 cap, no? That is what it sounds like to my ear now

I think you're right, but I'm still essentially clueless when it comes to circuits :/

I'm glad to hear others experienced the same thing. I remember very early on taking the bass to a music store to get looked at and the luthier (or whatever he called himself) just shrugging his shoulders and saying "Well that's probably just how it sounds. Makes sense" as we plugged it into an amp. It astounded me so many people couldn't tell, or thought nothing of the difference in tone and output.
 

gilded

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I wonder if this was part of the reason why I always preferred the tone my 1966 SFB-I with the middle/bridge position bisonic and no tone-suck, to all of the neck position SFB-I's I had played (because I don't think I have ever played a neck-pickup SFB-I without the tone-suck switch... until now!

Are you talking about the '66 Red SFI bass you sold my friend in Austin? That was a good bass. gilded/harry
 

mellowgerman

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Are you talking about the '66 Red SFI bass you sold my friend in Austin? That was a good bass. gilded/harry

Yup! My first venture into Starfire territory. It sure is cool to have a super clean one like my new baby, but I also loved the super worn vibe of that one!
 

mellowgerman

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I'm glad to hear others experienced the same thing. I remember very early on taking the bass to a music store to get looked at and the luthier (or whatever he called himself) just shrugging his shoulders and saying "Well that's probably just how it sounds. Makes sense" as we plugged it into an amp. It astounded me so many people couldn't tell, or thought nothing of the difference in tone and output.

Those people probably just aren't aware of what a really great bass pickup can sound like in the neck position; they just expect it to sound like a tub of mud just like all the mudbuckers in Gibson basses of the day. That said, don't get me wrong, I like those old Gibson EB-2 basses as well, but I feel like they are one trick ponies and don't really work in a lot of contexts due to lack of versatility.
 

gilded

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... I like those old Gibson EB-2 basses as well, but I feel like they are one trick ponies and don't really work in a lot of contexts due to lack of versatility.

You can clip the capacitor on an EB-2 as well, mellow, with favorable results.
 

mellowgerman

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You can clip the capacitor on an EB-2 as well, mellow, with favorable results.

For sure! I have actually found that I really love the Dimarzio Model One and WillPower humbucker versions of the old mudbuckers. I've used them in a bunch of project basses. I have played around with their 4-lead wiring pretty extensively to make single/humbucking blend controls and attaching capacitors to one or the other coil. They actually sound great in single coil mode too. I had the idea a couple years back that if I ever come across a Starfire at a cheap price, that happens to be missing the neck pickup, I'll scoop it up and drop in a Model One.
That said, in my mind, there's nothing quite like a Bisonic. With that kind of a frequency response curve, you just get the greatest level of versatility both in wiring options and simply by way of right-hand technique (or left-hand technique, for the left-handed bassmen out there)
 

lungimsam

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How do you get to the electronics to work on them? Through the hole where the pick up is? Or do you have to take them out of the F hole?
 

mellowgerman

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How do you get to the electronics to work on them? Through the hole where the pick up is? Or do you have to take them out of the F hole?

The pots fit right through the center of the F-hole. On my Starfire I had to unscrew washers on all components (vol, tone, switch, and output jack) in order to bring the entire harness out through the F-hole. I don't believe you can take them through the pickup cavity on a Starfire since there is a solid centerblock of wood. On a 60's M-85, I'm pretty sure you would have to go through the pickup cavity though
 
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