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davismanLV

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Of course, their quality control is bad. I wasn't saying it isn't. They should fix that. But if guitars leave the factory and never come back how are they going to know? I was just conjecturing that if people don't force them to step up to the plate and be accountable for these rather glaring errors, that it might continue to happen. That's all I was saying. I can't believe that Rooftop logo ever left the factory that way. It's laughable! But if it never makes it's way back to the factory how are they going to know, except by reading guitar forums, which isn't really the best way to let them know. That's all I'm saying.

You want a really good guitar. They've offered to help. Allow them to do so. And hope that they get their QC together if they have to do it on a regular basis.
 

Quantum Strummer

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Personally I think all this is getting overblown. I spent a good chunk of time a few days ago at a shop with lots of Guilds, old and new. Mostly acoustics, some electrics. Having followed this thread, and being aware of some earlier experiences along the same line, I took a close look at all the new ones I could find. Hands-on inspection and playing. They were all just fine, cosmetically and structurally. Now, granted, this is a shop where everything is vetted and set up before it goes on display. But I asked one of the luthiers (the fellow who did the recent restoration work on my Martin 0-15) what he thought of the MIK guitars. They're consistently well made was basically his response.

So…I suspect there's something to the idea of sub-prime samples of NS guitars making their way to the public via the 'net. IMO if true this is a problem for sure and should be squelched by Cordoba to the fullest extent they can achieve.

Caveat emptor.

-Dave-
 
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davismanLV

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And I think Dave brings up a good point. The dealer has to be held accountable for accepting defective merchandise, and just trying to pass it on, rather than return it for a replacement. It's good business for the dealer to vet the guitars they sell. So I'm seeing a chain of accountability that's somehow gone by the wayside. Just my opinion at this point in time.....
 

txbumper57

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I never heard of any issues with the Quality of the Newark Street Series guitars from 2015 and prior. Never any Fit and finish or structural issues and I have played quite a few of them. They were all nice quality built guitars. What gets me on this whole issue I guess is the fact that it is happening on the highest priced guitar in the Newark Street lineup being the Starfire VI. That is supposed to be the showcase guitar for everyone to see the quality of the entire Korean Guild Newark Street line. I would understand if there were small issues with a lesser model selling for $800 less but to me this is the "Flagship" Starfire VI. This would be the equivalent of Oxnard of letting a group of D55's or F50R's go to market with the fret board inlays off centered by 1/2 inch and waiting for the unsuspecting customer to say, "Hey, The inlays on my $3500 guitar aren't right. I wonder if the people who built it are aware of this defect?"

Regardless I just Hope they get it fixed. These guitars should not have had to been inspected by a paying customer so that the feedback can make it back to the company. The issue should have been identified and fixed by the company before the shop or customer ever got involved. That was the point I was trying to make.

TX
 

fronobulax

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I bought a computer from a US company. It was, however, assembled in China and it was sent directly to me. I was the first person to open the box after the factory.

Thus I would like to know who the first person to open the box was in the US for the NS instruments. If Cordoba did an inspection in California before shipping to dealers then this is something Cordoba should have caught. But if the dealer opened the box then the dealer did not do a good inspection or made a value judgement that they could sell it in its current condition anyway. So the "blame" need not be directly assigned to Cordoba, even though they need to own the problem and fix it. The fix probably involves the factory and the dealers and still won't catch everything. But if no one tells Cordoba then they won't have a chance to fix things.

The NS line had some early QA issues when FMIC owned the company so this is not a new problem "caused" by Cordoba.

I suspect this is not indicative of a widespread QA/QC problem. It is more likely that machinery was out of whack for "several" necks and the QA/QC inspectors did not notice or made the judgement call that it was not a big deal - even though that now seems to be a bad call.
 

fronobulax

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I never heard of any issues with the Quality of the Newark Street Series guitars from 2015 and prior.

A few of the first NS Starfire basses had issues. There is a thread showing a couple that had off center "skunk stripes" and I recall one of the early adopters returned one because they could not get the E string to intonate because of the bridge placement.

On the other hand, if mine has a manufacturing flaw I have yet to notice.
 

JohnW63

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My concern for the NS line is that one random guy, has tried THREE times to just get a properly built guitar from two separate dealers. What are the odds of that happening, if only 1 out of 100 have any issues ? On the other hand, if the issues are cropping up a lot more than 1 in 100, this sort of thing starts happening to more than one guy. THAT is not the reputation Guild ( of Oxnard ) wants or needs to have.

Since the same factory is making them, ( at least I assume that hasn't changed ) then what is the root cause of poor QC ? I suspect no one is inspecting them, until they reach a dealer, after the box is sealed in Korea. Perhaps, even the dealers aren't opening the box before shipping it out to you and me. In store sales procedures vs online procedures.

I would really like to see this resolved quickly. Is so much easier to be an outspoken fan of a guitar brand, on the web forums, if you know they consistently put out a well made guitar.
 

Sitedrifter

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To try and get out of the funk after 3 guitar failures I went down to the local shop and purchased this. It will keep me occupied until I get a Guild (because I will get a Guild)
31384102523_75dd40f272_b.jpg
 

Guildadelphia

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Nice Gretsch Electromatic. I might be wrong, but aren't the Newark St Guilds made in the same factory in Korea as the Gretsch Electromatics?....that would be ironic.
 

Sitedrifter

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They are indeed.

This totally lends to my thoughts that QC is based on the company not the place they are manufactured.
I really hope Guild gets it together because I want one!!!

Quick info. When I was in my dealer yesterday they had a Starfire II. It was gorgeous and perfect BUT no bigsby and it was mahogany. If I wanted a ES335 replacement it would be that one!
 

fronobulax

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My concern for the NS line is that one random guy, has tried THREE times to just get a properly built guitar from two separate dealers. What are the odds of that happening, if only 1 out of 100 have any issues ?

I suspect the odds are much higher than you might imagine. Most production lines will operate so that items that were made close in time will ship close in time. Westerly and New Hartford both worked in batches - today we make 20 F30 necks and then retool to make D55's. So it is very easy to imagine that some machine was off, a bunch of guitars were made with bad inlays, they were shipped together and so any dealer who has that model from that batch is going to have a bad one.

If the error was discovered at the factory then presumably steps have been taken to make sure that future batches do not have the same flaw.

What happens next is up to Cordoba. If this flaw were a health and safety issue then some regulatory agency would compel them to recall the bad guitars, with all the associated publicity. Since it isn't a safety issue, the right thing to do would be to recall the instruments or at least get them retroactively classified as factory seconds and priced and sold accordingly. Doing that requires identifying the bad batches, finding out where they were shipped and then contacting the dealers. This may be happening now. Cordoba has no reason to publicize it.

I realize we are all speculating here but I do not think Sitedrifter's experience indicates a massive failure in NS quality control. Furthermore Sitedrifter's response from Cordoba suggests that if Cordoba didn't know about the issue before, then they know about it now. The response also suggests they intend to "fix" things although we don't know how.

Tangentially, I notice I seem to want to identify the company involved as Corboba, and not Guild. There are probably reasons for that, since I'm not the only person doing it.
 

fronobulax

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This totally lends to my thoughts that QC is based on the company not the place they are manufactured.

I think it is more nuanced than that. The first and best QC happens at the factory. For guitars it is reasonable for the selling dealer to do QC as part of the pre-sale setup. The factory owners ultimately determine the amount and quality of factory QA/QC controls. Since Cordoba does not own the factory, the only way they can influence QA processes is by requiring specific conditions in the contract and by returning (and not paying for) substandard product. On the dealer end Cordoba could mandate inspections as part of carrying the product line but doing so would probably not increase their dealer network. IIRC, when FMIC owned Guild, they had an employee who visited the overseas factories that were operating on a contract basis about one a month or so and that person's job was to influence the quality control and manufacturing standards in the factory. Some other company - Epiphone? - dealt with this by owning the overseas factory.

If the company places a premium on quality then the best way to do that is to own the manufacturing facility. Cordoba is certainly headed in that direction with the Oxnard plant.
 

chazmo

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I think you guys are drawing some pretty fuzzy conclusions, not that there's anything wrong with that. We don't have a lot to go on here.

It's worth keeping in mind that the same Fender guys who brought a resurgence to the Gretsch line, did the Guild Newark Street models as well. I think, at the time, production was done in the same Korean factory.

With the transition of Guild to Cordoba, things may have changed in oversight and staff. I'm not sure we've heard from anyone in Cordoba about what's going on here with the NS products. The key guy from Fender, who I think was a member here for a little while, may have nothing to do with this anymore.

As for what you guys were talking about earlier... Keep in mind that QC doesn't create the manufacturing defects; it's just supposed to detect them. Could be some things are wrong with the production line now that weren't a problem before, and thus QC isn't looking for them.

I'm not excusing any of this. Believe me. I just think CMG better root cause this set of production problems and decide what to do. Fro, I seriously doubt they'd do a blanket recall/exchange. They just may have a lot of CS complaints to deal with.
 

gilded

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Gents,

I agree about the question of oversight. From conversations I have had with a guitar company owner who had significant QC issues with a very good Korean guitar factory, the companies that do the best with import guitars have experienced USA employees who both:

1) spend a lot of time talking with their import factory 'counterparts' and

2) visit the factories in Asia frequently.

If a USA company doesn't want to spend money for both the employee and the travel expenses, you're gonna have QC problems.
 

Quantum Strummer

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To try and get out of the funk after 3 guitar failures I went down to the local shop and purchased this. It will keep me occupied until I get a Guild (because I will get a Guild)
31384102523_75dd40f272_b.jpg

Oooh, I like that. I've been groovin' on three-pickup guitars that aren't Strats lately.

-Dave-
 
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