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Thread: Incoming 1976 F-412 - question about machine heads

  1. #1

    Incoming 1976 F-412 - question about machine heads

    Hi all - first post here, prompted by a new purchase!

    I just purchased the F-412 pictured, which I believe dates to 1976. It's certainly seen a lot of action and has had a neck reset at some point, but I'm told by the (reputable) dealer that it's structurally sound and plays well. Original case too is a bonus!

    My question is about the tuners, which appear to be Grovers. My guess is that these are replacements, as I believe the originals would be Guild branded and also gold, rather than silver. Is this correct or were some F412s equipped with Grovers as standard?

    Long-time lurker here and very grateful for all the knowledge of forum members. I also have a 2011 New Hartford F47-R and a Hoboken 1959 X50 archtop.







    Last edited by Epsilon; 01-04-2017 at 12:26 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Epsilon View Post
    My question is about the tuners, which appear to be Grovers. My guess is that these are replacements, as I believe the originals would be Guild branded and also gold, rather than silver. Is this correct or were some F412s equipped with Grovers as standard?

    Hello Epsilon,

    Welcome! If this guitar is indeed from 1976 I would expect it to have Schaller M-6 mini tuners. However, it's not impossible that the guitar was ordered with the Grover RotoMatics. If these are not the original tuners, then I would expect to see two small screwholes of the original Schaller tuners, which would probably not be hidden by the Grovers, even though they are a slightly bigger format.

    The picture is not clear enough for me to see, so you need to check that yourself. As far as the Grover RotoMatics are concerned, they look gold to me in the photo, albeit with the gold worn off showing the nickel plating that was underneath the gold.

    Edit: Is there a possibility that this guitar is a little older than stated? Can you give us the serial number?

    Sincerely,

    Hans Moust
    www.guitarsgalore.nl
    Last edited by hansmoust; 01-04-2017 at 11:12 AM.

  3. #3
    Thanks, hansmoust. I won't actually receive the guitar until Saturday so unable to check to serial number at this time. I've no reason to think that the shop got the date wrong, though I suppose it is possible. I'll check in once it's received! Out of interest, what makes you think it might be older?

    Looking at the pictures more closely it does seem that they may have once been gold which has faded over the years. Originality is not a huge concern to be honest but nice to know either way!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Epsilon View Post
    Hi all - first post here, prompted by a new purchase!....
    Welcome to the boards, and HNGD!!! There's just nothing like a Guild 12.
    2011 Guild F50R Sunburst
    2002 Guild JF30-12 Sunburst
    2008 Epiphone Masterbilt EF-500RAVS

    1939 Epiphone Masterbilt Zenith

    2014 Epi FT-79 IB-64 Texan
    
2012 Epi Lennon EJ-160E VS

    2011 Epi Performer ME TBK

    2013 Epi EL-00 Pro VS
    
1972 Epi FT-160 12-string
    2012 Epi Dot CH

    2010 Epi Les Paul Standard trans amber 

    2013 Yamaha Motif XS7

  5. #5
    Super Moderator chazmo's Avatar
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    Welcome aboard, Epsilon! That looks like a well-played example of the breed. Spectacular!! As Hans said, those are gold Grovers with the plating worn off. Very common, although perhaps not original.

    I'm a little concerned about what I see with that picture of the neck from the back. It looks like separation, but could just be the picture. Looking forward to hearing what you have to say about it.

    Also, the dots on the bridge could either be part of factory electronics (although I thought the put the hot dots in a different place, or could be a sign of something else non-original.

    In any case, if you give Hans the serial number he can give you the details.
    Quote Originally Posted by Neal
    I am going to hang onto this little F-20 and play it as a reminder that life is sometimes rough, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the damage you accrue along the way defines who you are.
    Quote Originally Posted by marcellis
    Growing old is a bitch.
    Guild 12-strings:
    1978 G-312NT (Westerly) - "Franzz",
    1994 JF-30-12Bld (Westerly),
    2006 F-512 (Tacoma),
    2010 F-212XL STD (New Hartford) - "Connie"
    2014 Orpheum 12 OOO SHRW (New Hartford)

    Non-Guild 12s:
    1970 Martin D-12-20
    1980 Ibanez AW-75 (Series I)
    1984 Taylor 655

  6. #6
    Welcome!
    Quote Originally Posted by fronobulax View Post

    And I like Harry's approach.
    '66 Starfire I SB bass, '75 Mark 4 P, '00 Black Bird,
    '66 Thunderbird amp, '68 Thunder 1 RVT amp

  7. #7
    Epsilon, Hans Moust, who is attempting to answer your question literally wrote the book on Guild Guitars. You ought to pick one up. https://www.amazon.com/Guild-Guitar-...=Guild+guitarsIt is considered the bible around here on all things Guild. We are anxiously awaiting volume 2 but Guild keeps changing so it will probably be out of date the moment it hits the shelves (which should provide for a volume 3).

    Beautiful guitar and welcome to the forum.
    Don

    Guild X-170-T
    Guild Starfire V
    G&L ASAT Deluxe Semi-Hollow
    Gretsch 6120 DC
    Gretsch 5422-12
    Fender American Standard Stratocaster
    Fender '90s Custom Telecaster

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by chazmo View Post
    Welcome aboard, Epsilon! That looks like a well-played example of the breed. Spectacular!! As Hans said, those are gold Grovers with the plating worn off. Very common, although perhaps not original.

    I'm a little concerned about what I see with that picture of the neck from the back. It looks like separation, but could just be the picture. Looking forward to hearing what you have to say about it.

    Also, the dots on the bridge could either be part of factory electronics (although I thought the put the hot dots in a different place, or could be a sign of something else non-original.

    In any case, if you give Hans the serial number he can give you the details.

    Well played indeed! The person I spoke to over the phone in the shop suggested that this was a well-toured guitar. I'm hoping that the fact that it's been so well played is a positive reflection on the sound and playability.

    I'm aware that the guitar has had a neck reset so I'm assuming the line where the neck meets the body is where the original finish was removed. If there's any separation in the neck I'll have no problem returning it. For the price I got it for, provided the guitar plays well and has no structural issues, I'll be happy!

    Good spot on the dot markers on the bridge, which I hadn't picked up on. I've not seen them on other models so presumably non-original and I'll investigate further when it arrives. I'll also upload a bunch of pictures, including of the serial number.

    Thanks to all for the warm welcome!

  9. #9
    Senior Member
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    I hope everything checks out for you when you get the guitar. You may soon find out from the guitar historians out and around that the coolness factor of the maple neck rates quite high. Might anyone know why it was changed to mahogany in later years? Also I have seen in my own hands versions of Paduk or Pear wood on the necks, for the main neck, or used for the center strip.

    I have owned a few older F412's going back to 1981, when I was doing guitar repair and re-sale, but today it is mostly not profitable.

    Guitar folks often felt on the older Guild guitars that the tuners were "too heavy" and would "pull the neck of the guitar downward". It has also been pointed out to me that "all Guild guitars are too heavy". But its all just a matter of what someone likes.

    One thing for certain is that some players don't want to merely play the same instrument as the legions of players out there with Takamine, Seagull, etc. etc. that are used just about everywhere you go.

    I like the modern day butter bean tuners (beginning 2008), however my favorite older tuners were the large Grover's, then the standard Grover & Schaller, with my least favorite being the Grover mini that were used during the JF65-12 period (1984-1997, or therabouts). Although really its all good since I have liked playing all the varieties at some time.

    At any rate the older F412 & 512 are liked by a lot folks, and there are still gawkers and admirers out there that always want to know something about them.
    Last edited by idealassets; 01-04-2017 at 02:48 PM.

    1978 Tama Drums (mahogany)
    2007 Guild D55
    2010 Guild F512
    2011 Rickenbacker 360/12

    LMG III

  10. #10
    Senior Member walrus's Avatar
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    Nice! Welcome! Would love to see photos of the '59 X-50!

    walrus
    1984 Guild D64
    1998 Guild Bluesbird AAA

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