Bridge/pickup height x160

Walter Broes

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Harry, yes, Roller bridges work a lot better with the tension bar bigsbies. With just the single roller there's usually not enough down pressure on the rollers to "make them roll".

And yes, you can get Tru-Arcs in brass and copper and aluminium too. Never played one of those.

What I have always done with the Bigsby "rocker" saddles is file them flat on the bottom. They're made out of aluminium - easy material to file and sand, so it's a ten minute job really. The idea of that rocker bridge looks good on paper for use with a Bigsby, but is a tuning nightmare in practice.
 

gilded

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Harry, yes, Roller bridges work a lot better with the tension bar bigsbies. With just the single roller there's usually not enough down pressure on the rollers to "make them roll".

I hear you, Walter. Looking at the picture though, I think he has enough break-over angle to try a Schaller.


....What I have always done with the Bigsby "rocker" saddles is file them flat on the bottom. They're made out of aluminium - easy material to file and sand, so it's a ten minute job really. The idea of that rocker bridge looks good on paper for use with a Bigsby, but is a tuning nightmare in practice.

That's a good idea, I never thought of that. I don't think it would work for this gentleman, though, because a thinner bridge top would make him have to increase the height of the bridge and he already has trouble with his bridge studs being too short!

You know, come to think of it, when I had a Schaller on a my old Bluesbird, I could knock out the low E string if I hit it hard enough, so that might be bad for Retro Rocker with his Power Chops, but on second thought, I could always put the string back in place without stopping the song.
 

DThomasC

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I don't understand you guys. I love the rocking bridges. They require a little more care when stringing up, but I find them to work well with a Bigsby and stay in tune.

I've yet to find a roller bridge with rollers that actually roll freely. Though I haven't tried every roller bridge...
 

Walter Broes

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Never could make them work Thomas, in the middle of a set or song they'll tilt over and tuning and intonation go funny.
 

kakerlak

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Seems like he likes the Bigsby saddle itself. I vote for swapping out for either a taller base or replacing its studs with longer ones and leaving the rest alone -- filing the bridge base flat like Walter explained if he doesn't like the rocker action.
 

kakerlak

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Incoming veer...

Retro Rocker, what is the framed RCA 45 RPM record in picture #1?

sailingshoes

Looks like Jailhouse Rock/Treat Me Nice to me:
elvis_presley-jailhouse_rock_s_3.jpg
 
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Why don't you measure the height of the bridge screws you have on the bridge now and see how much longer you need them to be? Try the link below, they sell Gibson diameter studs and wheels with studs up to 1 1/16th inches long.

Link: http://www.guitarpartsresource.com/gbridge_studs.htm

Roller saddles are a pain and Walter doesn't care for them for all the right reasons, but you've got a lot of break-over angle, which means your strings have a lot of down-force on the bridge, so a roller bridge might sound fine. I used a Schaller roller bridge on a bluesbird and it worked okay. Re the true-arc bridges, I bet they make some of those serpentune models out of material besides stainless steel, too.

Good luck!

Thanks! I ordered them. I figure, no matter what bridge I end up with, I'm going to need the longer screws anyway!
 
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Why don't you measure the height of the bridge screws you have on the bridge now and see how much longer you need them to be? Try the link below, they sell Gibson diameter studs and wheels with studs up to 1 1/16th inches long.

Link: http://www.guitarpartsresource.com/gbridge_studs.htm

Roller saddles are a pain and Walter doesn't care for them for all the right reasons, but you've got a lot of break-over angle, which means your strings have a lot of down-force on the bridge, so a roller bridge might sound fine. I used a Schaller roller bridge on a bluesbird and it worked okay. Re the true-arc bridges, I bet they make some of those serpentune models out of material besides stainless steel, too.

Good luck!


OK, I ordered the 1 1/16" SAE Nickel studs and thumbwheels. (BP-2394-001).
Received them today and installed them on the guitar. They were actually a little too long, but I took care of that with my heavy-duty wire-cutters and a small file! Fits perfectly!!! And works just fine. Solid.

And I put a little cello rosin under the bridge to keep it from sliding around.

So, I figured since I'm going to keep this saddle for a little while, I might as well experiment a little, so I strung it up with D'Addario Chrome flats 11-50. (22 Wound G). The intonation on the G is a little flat. I had read somewhere that the Bigsby saddle was intonated for a plain G, so it wasn't unexpected...but its only a tiny bit flat at the octave (better than being sharp!). I had a wound 18 on it with the last set and it was fine actually. I can live with it. All the others are spot-on!

The feel and tone of the flatwounds are going to take a bit of getting used to. I kinda like them and kinda don't! I will reserve judgement until this weekend's gig. I want to see what they sound like with the whole band! They are warmer and less "Kerrang-y", and they kill on the Duane Eddy stuff! They DO seem to go well with the DeArmonds! And you can slide up and down the fretboard effortlessly and quietly...but I'm kinda used to that round-wound friction and feel. And bite. Again...reserving judgement til the gig.

I did NOT file the bottom of the Bigsby saddle flat...just to keep experimenting. With the longer posts it's a lot more stable.

I think I'm going to order a tunomatic. ABR-1. I just like the option of being able to intonate each string individually. And I never had a problem on my other Bigsby-equipped guitars with the tunomatics. I want to be able to experiment with different string types and gauges, and that's the main reason I don't pin the bridge!

Thanks for all the replies, insights and opinions, and sharing your experiences!
 

adorshki

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So, I figured since I'm going to keep this saddle for a little while, I might as well experiment a little, so I strung it up with D'Addario Chrome flats 11-50. (22 Wound G). The intonation on the G is a little flat. I had read somewhere that the Bigsby saddle was intonated for a plain G, so it wasn't unexpected...but its only a tiny bit flat at the octave (better than being sharp!). I had a wound 18 on it with the last set and it was fine actually. I can live with it. All the others are spot-on!

Not saying a gauge change will cure the intonation thing but since you're interested in experimenting you might find this kind of interesting if you didn't see it in a couple of other current threads, what Hendrix's equipment tech (Roger Mayer, still in business) had to say about gauges and output:

"First of all, we weren't using a flat-radius fretboard," Mayer says. "We were using the normal one, not the very high radius but definitely curvy. The actual strings we used were not what people would expect. The string gauges would run .010, .013, .015, .026, .032 and .038.

The big difference there is that you're using the .015 for the third, because if you use the .017 for the third, the actual sound of the guitar is very G-heavy. The electrical output of the strings is dependent on the square of the diameter; if you square all the diameters and look at them, you can get much more of an idea about the balance of the guitar.

"You should always remember that, because many, many times people use a set of strings that are completely imbalanced and they just don't sound that good. Most people would say a .010 to .013 is the correct jump. And the .015 is much better for the G than a .017. An .015 squares out at .225 and .017 is 289. So you're going to get 28 percent more output just with a two-pound different in string size."


Complete interview here:
http://www.guitarworld.com/features...rixs-guitar-setup-interview-roger-mayer/11678
 
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Quantum Strummer

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Just to note: the older Bigsby aluminum saddles are intonated for a wound G. Just in case you're up for even more experimenting. :)

-Dave-
 

Quantum Strummer

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Also, re. string diameter: wound vs. unwound makes a difference in output too. Strats with a vintage magnet stagger (tall G magnet) but strung with an unwound G drive me around the bend 'cuz the unwound string is so loud relative to the others. A guy I sometimes "jam" with (more like aimless noodling but we have fun) pushed down the G magnets in his Strat's (an all-original '63!) pickups due to the same thing. He uses heavy strings but loves that plain third.

-Dave-
 

sailingshoes72

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LOL...Being the "Retro Rocker" I do a few Elvis songs in the show from time to time, and people sometimes bring me gifts!

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Continuing with the veer...

I like that wall full of Elvis memorabilia! Over the years, I have collected a few 1950's 45 RPM records at yard sales and flee markets. On the Sun Records label... Carl Perkins ("Blue Suede Shoes", "Matchbox"); Jerry Lee Lewis ("Great Balls of Fire"). On the Decca label... Bill Haley ("Rock Around the Clock"). And on the King label... Bill Doggett ("Honky Tonk"). They are not really in playable condition, but they all have their original sleeves. I have thought about framing the records with their original sleeves and hanging them in my music room.

Bill
 
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Also, re. string diameter: wound vs. unwound makes a difference in output too. Strats with a vintage magnet stagger (tall G magnet) but strung with an unwound G drive me around the bend 'cuz the unwound string is so loud relative to the others. A guy I sometimes "jam" with (more like aimless noodling but we have fun) pushed down the G magnets in his Strat's (an all-original '63!) pickups due to the same thing. He uses heavy strings but loves that plain third.

-Dave-

I ALWAYS did that with my strats too! I wondered why Fender didn't utilize adjustable pole pieces in their pickups, but then I'm no engineer. Maybe it would have changed the sound.
 
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Continuing with the veer...

I like that wall full of Elvis memorabilia! Over the years, I have collected a few 1950's 45 RPM records at yard sales and flee markets. On the Sun Records label... Carl Perkins ("Blue Suede Shoes", "Matchbox"); Jerry Lee Lewis ("Great Balls of Fire"). On the Decca label... Bill Haley ("Rock Around the Clock"). And on the King label... Bill Doggett ("Honky Tonk"). They are not really in playable condition, but they all have their original sleeves. I have thought about framing the records with their original sleeves and hanging them in my music room.

Bill

I actually have TONS more Elvis stuff and I was going to build a shelf on the wall for some of the other things, but I just haven't gotten around to it yet! I just did the annual Art Fein Elvis Birthday Bash in Burbank last Sunday! Over 30 performers, all singing Elvis, most of them backed by an amazing house band. SO much fun!
 

Quantum Strummer

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I ALWAYS did that with my strats too! I wondered why Fender didn't utilize adjustable pole pieces in their pickups, but then I'm no engineer. Maybe it would have changed the sound.

Alnico magnets are too soft to be threaded or slotted for repeated adjustment. To make 'em adjustable you need something like the apparatus DeArmond came up with for their model 2000 (DynaSonic) pickup. The CuNiFe magnets Seth Lover used in his Wide Range humbuckers designed for Fender are harder and so can be threaded/slotted.

Putting magnets in the coil, as opposed to under or alongside it, definitely makes a sonic difference. Having individual magnets for each string in the coil, as opposed to a bar magnet in the coil (as in one of the Firebird pickup variants), makes a difference too.

-Dave-
 

gilded

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Also, re. string diameter: wound vs. unwound makes a difference in output too. Strats with a vintage magnet stagger (tall G magnet) but strung with an unwound G drive me around the bend 'cuz the unwound string is so loud relative to the others. A guy I sometimes "jam" with (more like aimless noodling but we have fun) pushed down the G magnets in his Strat's (an all-original '63!) pickups due to the same thing. He uses heavy strings but loves that plain third.

-Dave-

In the '80s, one of the guys who wound up running the Fender Custom Shop told me NOT to push on Fender Strat/Tele/Mustang magnets!!!!!!!

Those pickups consist of two pieces of 'bobbin' material, and six magnets and, of course, the wire. The pickup wire, smaller than a human hair, is wound directly onto the magnets. When you push the magnet down, you are actually rubbing a piece of metal on those incredibly tiny wires. You might get away with it once, but probably not twice (don't push it back up!!!).

And if you break it, it's not like when a ball point pin end hits a Tele pickup and breaks a wire on the outer side of the pickup and all the repair man has to do is unwind 50 turns of wire, find the break and re-attach the good wire to the pickup eyelet. When you break the wire on the inside you have to start all over with a rewind, which affects the sound and the value.

I just called my set-up guy to see if my info was still current. He said, "Yes!". He also said, DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!
 

Quantum Strummer

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In the '80s, one of the guys who wound up running the Fender Custom Shop told me NOT to push on Fender Strat/Tele/Mustang magnets!!!!!!!

Yup, good point! One I should've made myself. My Strat-playing friend was probably lucky he didn't do any damage. His "modified" Strat does sound exceptionally good, though. It even sounds good when I play it. (I think the 3-position pickup switch helps. Fewer (easy) options are sometimes better IMO.)

-Dave-
 
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