Bridge/pickup height x160

So..as I am getting acquainted with my new guitar, adjusting intonation, bridge height, pickup pole heights, etc...it seemed to me that the bridge set up was kinda funky, so I started google-image searches and came across the following:

MY 2002 Corona-made X160:

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And this pic of a 90's Westerly-made X160 (from Dolphin Street):

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There were other images I saw that were relatively the same, but this pic from Dolphin Street seemed to illustrate the setup I'm trying to describe:
Same kinda funky saddle-to-bridge set-up...but look at the spacers under my pickups! Sure, the spacers bring the pickups higher...but you have to raise the saddles so much higher for clearance anyway...so what's the point? Am I missing something?

(Sorry...you gotta blow-up the pics to see the bridge setups)

TX, is your Corona-made X160 like this?

Looks like your neck is set in a way that has more 'breakover angle' on the bridge. If that becomes a bother, you might think about a roller bridge.

It's hard to tell because the top picture is taken with a more wide-angle lens which makes it look like it has a huge bulge in the middle due to lens distortion (normal). It does definitely look higher, though, since there's a spacer under the bridge pickup. The bridge looks like it's adjusted really high. Is it? Is the action high? From what I can see I'd be tempted to pull the spacer and lower the bridge but it all depends on the neck angle and how the action sits as it is.

My Corona model does have the pickup spacer under the bridge pickup but I removed the wobbly Bigsby saddle and installed a different saddle setup. I know a lot of folks don't like them but I put a schaller style roller tun-o-matic saddle on my Rosewood base for better tuning stability when I dive bomb the bigsby. As far as your Saddle distance from the base of the bridge it looks like you have plenty of room to go down and maybe stabilize the saddle better. On one of my Gretsch Falcons I have more distance than you do between the saddle and base which makes for a greater break angle for the strings.

Something you can do if you want to lower your strings more without changing any hardware is this. Remove the spacer from your bridge pickup and use it as a template to make a new one out of mouse pad material. This way you can get a thinner material for your bridge spacer essentially lowering your bridge pickup and allowing you to lower your saddle which will lower the strings. If you don't want to make one you can order some Dearmond style spacers from TV Jones. They are made out of a foam rubber and compress under pressure so you can use however many you need to acheive the height you want. Here is the link for the spacer on TV Jones website. They come in packs of 2 so I would order a few in case you mess some up.

https://store.tvjones.com/shims-p73.aspx

You should be able to leave your pickup wires connected as your current spacer and the new ones will just slide over the pickup sideways. Just unscrew your bridge pickup and slide the old spacer off. Then slide your new spacer or spacers on and screw the bridge pickup back down. This should allow you to lower your bridge pickup to the height you want so you can lower the saddle and string height. It might take a few times of trial and error to determine how many of the TV Jones spacers you need to use. Hope this helps my friend!

TX

The action is fine on my guitar actually. And I'm not having any problems with the bridge. I just thought it looked sort of "odd"...the saddle sort of 'teetering" on the wheels. But, yeah, I DO see where it increases the string break angle after the bridge. Maybe that's why they did it?

Is that a rocking bridge? I'm not referring to a style of music, but the fact that some bridges are meant to rock back and forth as you use the Bigsby. The strings don't have to slide over the saddle, so they tend to stay in tune. tx called it wobbly, so I'm inclined to think that it is the kind I'm talking about.

If that's the case, you can loosen the strings and straighten the saddle so it's upright. It ends up being a complicated interaction of uprightness, string tension, and intonation, so it might be an iterative process until you get it good enough.

Concerning bridge height and pickup shims, the obvious process for me is to first adjust the bridge height to get the action where you want it. Second adjust the pickup height if necessary. I would never adjust the bridge to accommodate the pickup.

Mine came with a Rockin' Bridge but it would never return to tune properly and honestly was just a headache. Hence I call it a Wobbly Bridge as mine didn't perform properly. LOL!

TX

In my experience the rocking Bigsby bridge works a heckuva lot better with heavier flatwound strings. Less friction. (Same goes for the Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge.) In this case I'd suggest trying out TX's roller saddle TOM-type bridge approach, though if you can set the action low enough to reduce string break angle over the current bridge (without causing buzzing or messing up the guitar's tone) you should be okay with it.

When I got my old Supro Dual Tone many years ago the bridge saddle was cranked way up, though the action was quite low. I played it that way for awhile, bumping the bridge out of position multiple times, before discovering the neck had a tilt adjuster. I backed off on the tilt, et voilà!

-Dave-

Ditch the stock Bigsby bridge and get a Tru Arc (the stainless sounds great with DeArmonds). You can even get Tru Arcs that are intonated (the "Serpentune" model). Regular Tru Arcs don't match up with Bigsby width bases but you can order a new base from Tru Arc or possibly special order a Tru Arc with hole spacing that matches the Bigsby base. Measure your fret board radius as Tru Arcs are available in 12" and 9.5" radius. String spacing on Tru Arcs also match up very well w/ DeArmond pole spacing.

Also...I had a little bit of a pain balancing the string volume...the plain G always seemed too loud. And when using the bigsby, the G would go sharp. It brought back memories of when I was setting up my Peerless/Robelli...same thing!
Switched to a wound G (18) and solved both problems like THAT! (snaps fingers!)

I'm gonna play it like it is for a little while and a I have a couple of gigs coming up on fri and sat...so we'll see how it goes! But so far, I am LOVING this guitar!

Happy New Year!

Wellllll....

Friday night's gig went well...the band loves the sound of the X160...even the soundman was extremely complimentary! And it felt great playing it! What a great guitar...and lots of tonal variations..all of them usable!
The non-musicians love the look of it too. I got so many compliments on the guitar!

Then came Saturday! LOL

All went well for most of sat night...I used the G41 for the acoustic stuff...and had the X160 for the rockin' stuff! Played a BUNCH of stuff, having a great time...all was fine...til we brought the G/F up to sing "White Rabbit"...I played the slightly psychedelic intro...and then while rocking out, hit the power-chord E (..."one man on the chessboard")...and BAM...the saddle popped off the bridge post and laid flat on the guitar, on its side, held by the strings, behind the bridge! "Goodnight everybody!" LOL!

Actually, I picked up the G41 and finished the song...and then we did the last song...and after the show, after most of the audience left...picked up the X160 to see just what the hell happened.

Well, in a previous post we talked about the "wobbly bridge" and bridge height, etc. The height of the saddle is dictated by the height of the strings at the 12th fret, and even tho my action is pretty low, neck is straight with the tiniest bit of relief, the bridge post wheels are still turned pretty high. So much so that very little threaded post is actually inside the saddle.
OH, and one other thing that made the bridge look "wobbly" from the side view...the bottom on the Bigsby bridge is sort of rounded where it contacts the wheels (height adjusters)...it does not, and can not, sit flush on the wheel. I guess they thought that would give it the rocking action it needs for the Bigsby!

Got it home and took it all apart and put it all back together, and everything is fine...not even a scratch anywhere (whew!)...but now I definitely want to replace the entire bridge assembly with something strong and robust...with longer posts that fully engage the saddle!

I guess I'll be looking at the "usual suspects"...Tru Arc, Compton...but I do not know the radius of my fingerboard. Anyone know? (2002 Corona made X160 rockabilly).

And from what I've read, I think I want to go with stainless? Opinions?
And with the compensated Bigsby that's on it now, it actually intonates VERY well..so I think I'd like to stay with the compensated solid bar bridge as opposed to a tunomatic style. I'm using a wound G. 11-50 Gauge.

Your insight is greatly appreciated, as always!

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One other note:
In closely studying the two pictures above (the orange Westerly-built vs my red-ish Corona-built) it's evident that Guild changed the neck angle (and put spacers under the pickups) to improve the after-bridge neck angle, which on the orange guitar is practically nonexistent! Some Gretsches remedy the lack of break angle by using the tension bar Bigsbys, which I GUESS Guild could have done. But I'm glad they didn't.

I have tune-a-matics on all my archtops, so I'm not a big help there I'm afraid.

I have tried the Tru-Arc bridges from Tim Harman, and while they're a high quality product, they're not for me. two things about them : I found the stainless bar a little "too much". It's an extremely efficient coupling between strings and guitar body, and for my taste things got a little too kerrang-y and strident for single coil pickups and Fender amps.

The other thing about them : if you do decide to get a Tru-Arc, get the new-ish "serpentune" version. It's a twisted snakey ridge cut out of a cylindrycal bar. This should solve what was a problem for me on 24 3/4" scale guitars with the original fully round bar bridges : I had to slant the bridge so much that the high strings would choke out on bends because they'd hit the sidewall of the groove they sit in, and I'd get "sitar" like buzz from the offending strings.

Thanks Walter.
I have always had Gibson tunomatics (abr-1) on my arch tops too. (Gretsch tennessean, country gent, Nashville, my current Robelli, Epiphone Chet Atkins etc). The funny thing is, they all came that way when I got them. The original owners had already swapped them out!
This is the first solid one I have had. I just thought I would do more with it for the experience, and try the Tru Arc or Comptons that the Gretsch guys are always raving about. We'll see, maybe not. I DO like having the ability to get the intonation right no matter what strings I use without having to move the entire bridge! Hmmmm....

Even if I just stay with what I have for the moment, I'll have to find longer post screws! Any idea who makes them?

Just remember that a new bridge top will be resting on the same (too-short) studs. If you like the sound/look of the existing bridge top, I'd look at replacing the bridge base, or modifying it. Most of those wooden ones just have two flat head machine screws threaded in from the underside for studs. If so, a couple longer versions of same from the hardware store might solve your woes.

I like the Bigsby bridge itself (also being a wound G person), though the rocker aspect of the base/posts can be an issue for sure when playing or vibrato-ing with force. (Jazzmasters and Jags can have this same issue.) Beyond that I'd second what kakerlak says.

-Dave-

Surely some company connected to the guitar business makes the longer screws, as opposed to just going to the hardware store, right ?

txbumper57 said:

My Corona model does have the pickup spacer under the bridge pickup but I removed the wobbly Bigsby saddle and installed a different saddle setup. I know a lot of folks don't like them but I put a schaller style roller tun-o-matic saddle on my Rosewood base for better tuning stability when I dive bomb the bigsby. As far as your Saddle distance from the base of the bridge it looks like you have plenty of room to go down and maybe stabilize the saddle better. On one of my Gretsch Falcons I have more distance than you do between the saddle and base which makes for a greater break angle for the strings.

Something you can do if you want to lower your strings more without changing any hardware is this. Remove the spacer from your bridge pickup and use it as a template to make a new one out of mouse pad material. This way you can get a thinner material for your bridge spacer essentially lowering your bridge pickup and allowing you to lower your saddle which will lower the strings. If you don't want to make one you can order some Dearmond style spacers from TV Jones. They are made out of a foam rubber and compress under pressure so you can use however many you need to acheive the height you want. Here is the link for the spacer on TV Jones website. They come in packs of 2 so I would order a few in case you mess some up.

https://store.tvjones.com/shims-p73.aspx

You should be able to leave your pickup wires connected as your current spacer and the new ones will just slide over the pickup sideways. Just unscrew your bridge pickup and slide the old spacer off. Then slide your new spacer or spacers on and screw the bridge pickup back down. This should allow you to lower your bridge pickup to the height you want so you can lower the saddle and string height. It might take a few times of trial and error to determine how many of the TV Jones spacers you need to use. Hope this helps my friend!

TX

Click to expand...

Cant lower the bridge without the strings hitting the fretboard. The spacer is there under the pickup because Guild changed the neck angle on the Corona-built X160s. The bridge has to be higher, ergo the pickups needed to come up too. And increased break angle after the bridge is a good thing! (Just like it is on an acoustic!) Keeps the strings in the slots, keeps more downward pressure on the bridge which increases sustain.

So it's all good, except for the length of the screws/posts that anchor the saddle. They aren't long enough. (On my guitar anyway).

I've never tried a roller bridge...I heard they were noisy, rattled around, etc. But the IDEA of them seems a good idea for use with a Bigsby!

Why don't you measure the height of the bridge screws you have on the bridge now and see how much longer you need them to be? Try the link below, they sell Gibson diameter studs and wheels with studs up to 1 1/16th inches long.

Link: http://www.guitarpartsresource.com/gbridge_studs.htm

Roller saddles are a pain and Walter doesn't care for them for all the right reasons, but you've got a lot of break-over angle, which means your strings have a lot of down-force on the bridge, so a roller bridge might sound fine. I used a Schaller roller bridge on a bluesbird and it worked okay. Re the true-arc bridges, I bet they make some of those serpentune models out of material besides stainless steel, too.

Good luck!