Fake S-100 keeps getting faker?

kakerlak

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To quote Mart Twain, it's a difference of opinion that makes horse races, but I am quite comfortable in believing the wings were either sawn off an intact original body or made on the same tooling. We are just looking at pictures and I will claim some intuition from living with a JS II for decades but I would like to know why you think otherwise.

It really boils down to the presence of wood where it should be absent. There seems to be no evidence of screw holes where they should be for a pickguard, no evidence of holes from knobs, indicator tacks, and jack in their factory-correct locations and not enough round-over/bevel at the edges of the body. I suppose it's possible the mahogany wings were part of a factory body blank in its roughest form, having only been band-sawed out of the plank, but, at that point, I don't think you can really consider it a "Guild" part.
 

adorshki

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I suppose it's possible the mahogany wings were part of a factory body blank in its roughest form, having only been band-sawed out of the plank, but, at that point, I don't think you can really consider it a "Guild" part.

Hmmmmm........."employee built"?
 

adorshki

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but what about the different pots cavity shape?...
If I understood the concept correctly, they were allowed to do that stuff on their own time, so I'm thinking he coulda routed it any shape he wanted.
Or possibly even one of those very rough prototypes Drumbob mentioned.
The issue of the whole thing being thicker than "stock" got me though.
Kakerlak's suggestion made me think, ok, maybe it started when they bandsawed the body planks, maybe they were too thick, and it was a goof, creating the opportunity for said employee to use unsalvageble parts.
Theen I though the odds of that were probably pretty thin, I'd expect 'em to be able to plane the planks down even if they were too thick to begin with.
Then I went and reviewed those neck/fretboard joint photos and decided an employee'd probably know better than to do it that way...
So I just decided to keep the post simple, but since you asked....
"I've had an interesting life, would you like to hear about it?"
:biggrin-new:
 
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Brynot

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Control Cavity

but what about the different pots cavity shape?...

BTW, the cover to the control cavity has the copper lining with the stamps for the pots. It's identical to many of the other Guild control covers I have found on this site and elsewhere. Kind of another strange piece to the puzzle. Maybe it's just a common thing for all guitar makers to have done back in the 70's? Of course the lining of the cavity itself is not copper. So perhaps it was another Guild piece that this guitar is made to match?

Also, I know the seller is completely unreliable, but he did say that it was a custom Guild that came out of New York. That's all he could tell me. I assumed he was just making that up, or he knew something more than he was letting on.
 

bluesypicky

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Also, I know the seller is completely unreliable, but he did say that it was a custom Guild that came out of New York. That's all he could tell me. I assumed he was just making that up, or he knew something more than he was letting on.

I was gonna suggest (in case you still have a form of contact such as an email address) to tell him that this guitar really got you aroused (or your curiosity at least) as a guild fan, and see if he could spill a bit more about its history? Might be worth a shot in case he does know more and would be willing to share....
 

bluesypicky

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I'm thinking he coulda routed it any shape he wanted.
Why would he have bothered?

As a Guild employee he would either:

-Have a body with the typical cavity already routed.
-Already know (and be used to) how to route a typical S100 cavity.

With that said, I for one, would love to hear more about your interesting life.
 

adorshki

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Also, I know the seller is completely unreliable, but he did say that it was a custom Guild that came out of New York. That's all he could tell me. I assumed he was just making that up, or he knew something more than he was letting on.
"Myths", of which I consider fabricated "backstories" to be a category, typically contain grains of truth to enhance their credibility.
You probably know Guild was out of New York and even Hoboken long before this piece was made, still, "custom build" hints at that possible employee-built or prototype, although I'm doubtful of that now, due to Qvart's observations about probable poor playability due to that neck set angle.
Suspect Hans won't make a comment if he hasn't by now.
He doesn't like to engage in speculation like some of us do, and if he saw something he could identify as a factory detail (or completely rule out) I think he'd let us know, as he's done before.
I guess one other possibility is if he can ID the s/n as having actually belonged to a guitar other than what you have.
 

adorshki

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Why would he have bothered?

As a Guild employee he would either:
-Have a body with the typical cavity already routed.
Not if he was recovering unsalvageable production goof material.
-Already know (and be used to) how to route a typical S100 cavity.
That assumes he was involved in solid body construction.
Not being able to establish that prevents proving the validity of any logical conclusion deriving from that assumption.
In the converse proof, however, I just realized that an "employee built" should not have an s/n on the neck, right?
If that's true we can rule out both employee built and prototype (which also got special s/n's when "legitimate")
With that said, I for one, would love to hear more about your interesting life.
I was very young when I was born and my mother tried to return me immediately, but the store had already gone out of business..
 

kakerlak

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BTW, the cover to the control cavity has the copper lining with the stamps for the pots. It's identical to many of the other Guild control covers I have found on this site and elsewhere. Kind of another strange piece to the puzzle. Maybe it's just a common thing for all guitar makers to have done back in the 70's? Of course the lining of the cavity itself is not copper. So perhaps it was another Guild piece that this guitar is made to match?

Also, I know the seller is completely unreliable, but he did say that it was a custom Guild that came out of New York. That's all he could tell me. I assumed he was just making that up, or he knew something more than he was letting on.

Wouldn't be surprised if your control cover is a factory part, then. I think somebody had an S-100 with a totally broken body that they rebuilt or just wanted to make their own Alembic homage and made that body. For what it's worth, the general cavity shape is factory-correct (they did change the cavity shape in the mid-1970s, though not coincidentally w/ introduction of phase switch), but the placement of the controls themselves is not factory-correct and the execution of the cavity route is way too crude for factory. Looks very much like what one might get hand-routing/chiseling a cavity to match a factory cover plate, though.
 

adorshki

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What about drooling?


For no reason, that is...

:)

That a personal inquiry or are you asking for "a friend"?
There's always a "reason".

Dr.-Strangelove.jpg

"Much like dogs and many other animals, most humans can be conditioned to drool in the presence of the proper stimulus."
 

mavuser

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It keeps getting weirder. The body shape looks right and the two "wings" seem like they could have been cut from an original S-100 body, but they are flush with the maple center which appears to be a little to wide for the neck so perhaps the two "wings" are too wide as well.

Also - unless there was a change between '71 and '73 - the control cavity routing shape looks completely wrong.

cavity_zpsspfqit89.jpg

yes there was a change in 1972/1973, those are both correct/factory cavities, before and after the change. no question about it. lots of questions, however, about the rest of it
 
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