Fake S-100 keeps getting faker?

Qvart

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yes there was a change in 1972/1973, those are both correct/factory cavities, before and after the change. no question about it. lots of questions, however, about the rest of it

Yeah, I thought there might have been. Didn't have one earlier than '73 to reference.
 

fronobulax

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Curiouser and curiouser.


cavity_zpsspfqit89.jpg


My 1971 JS II

MSNd92yPF_aEU-PQHk6ShMoGArKWRI0Pe2SjX9Gbx4dp8WvDGz6LfqKdi6BxteKL_ZfwgLVXmIcwmTHdEonQZRKGmwgMtlwSEvDBBCax5QQ2qLlX15Amb12VbsFwlISei6Sww4m8yoZsGtxy53Y6-8EQCNQSuLZCDwhNwYIwUPgy48WVnI4cSRcsDuQd_awCOi8QpOK_Xd4IbIrSToz-_u9usuYe61s9XmChZY4mj0wf1lRxd8cZJdnoQupZfaa_ooWK8qKUcGTzqvRK77uFpm2-WdyYReVKbCgCrUUWGKmmWTkzyfe8sMM1n0xoxly0XaYeBJ1BkUcyWa7tOz0VhZWD_8uc4uvo6oWpFxGFHs7Y-YzxBvNJw3S79uTb3uX7ZkTnfbTdK-tHjTUBEYV3EXu8Gv-rZg-AYlB8MOfu_86T1WUGDTmG48lsfsX40V-CeLKmKphVW8l7bpg5fZjW0EJ94ll8flDaZAnN4LFaEGa6Yi_XaxYIDaZXcFHzc7bal5sPdxhzkf1qKridRqxN8IulcWo4_MJevSpXCjP1vspR0bU0KitUkhKkNMR20kgT9m8vAtlLo4uicHe_yHDvGIAHYVJePM6IaZkIv-fSbAq3hTFiG18G=w1600-h1200-no


In addition to me just being flat out wrong I see two possibilities:

The cavity shape did change over the life of the S-100.
The JS and S-100 bodies are not as close to identical as people claim.

Perhaps this was a JS body mated to a guitar neck?

62452 seems to be the serial which puts the neck circa 1972 but unless Hans has something, we will not be able to identify which model.
 

Qvart

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Curiouser and curiouser.

The cavity shape did change over the life of the S-100.
The JS and S-100 bodies are not as close to identical as people claim.

Perhaps this was a JS body mated to a guitar neck?

62452 seems to be the serial which puts the neck circa 1972 but unless Hans has something, we will not be able to identify which model.

Two others have said the cavity shape changed in the early '70's. I wasn't sure.

A JS body? That would be curiouser. And perhaps give a reason for the maple center (convert from bass p'ups to git p'ups).

The first digit of the serial looks like a 5 to me (?).
 

fronobulax

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It really boils down to the presence of wood where it should be absent. There seems to be no evidence of screw holes where they should be for a pickguard, no evidence of holes from knobs, indicator tacks, and jack in their factory-correct locations and not enough round-over/bevel at the edges of the body. I suppose it's possible the mahogany wings were part of a factory body blank in its roughest form, having only been band-sawed out of the plank, but, at that point, I don't think you can really consider it a "Guild" part.

OK. I go back and forth on whether the bevel is correct. I could also argue that the control locations are close enough to those of a JS II that there is no need for "plugs". But the absence of pickguard screw holes means something.

DSC_6557_zpso61tcrqt.jpg


_058GhIhRzehwi3CjPxULnV5hgNfdSDuxCv9n8PUIhxyxz3VhBFoDHGOdmkNOv6dIKHsUQtfZx193ohbSyQoDgFQc_fM409FwoBoBv-u7r_lhEOV7aIlSUe8hRfswefAdYKTyq5BcWaibb-GP5qX5GSEVBulVWccnmnMukrNaEyzjDcKH0NGfYDLnOvQW8DftKPF9eb9z5siuo9G_WcLdv2cdWFKgRRYm_HsHOBjSv4D74_BS1NRYbZG_PWZkLAUY_mn9AcdC_ak7TjGQ_MzvSPhScjxocKhpAdsR0NAzwJMBA_YnBaDUNQK-Vma8_JkE5V-ev-2eEgqj-Yy2uv-Y4SF727Iwj7nzy0c5vUa-BLpk2BknkwwTxcZ6wBu1pe5kSzbyRa0ynSaEjRqBHR2m6nt_703ZHHgXIwZAnyms0RYcBlqVlJujF8IRZRszeWi_413QJNIECiiTD73DdJKfaxbMbzUg3g0QhF6An8roB6KMwgdN1HMgZ60-JGO6pMG3VjPRPPybh8I7VkqMQ8qgF5_JBKp8UJaTk54aCpa1VUq99EhHCuqxfe9hz56Z548IEK6J3dhj7rl9d2tXKYKjyumHQ5ArVZiR_nvURZ-0728CJKFsWLB=w1600-h1200-no

I should stop clinging to my hypothesis that an original, intact body is an ancestor but there might still be a case that it was a JS.
 

Qvart

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I should stop clinging to my hypothesis that an original, intact body is an ancestor but there might still be a case that it was a JS.

The layout of the knobs, switch, and input jack location on your JS look as different from this frankenguild as an S-100 does. Curioser.
 

fronobulax

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And as I review the pictures I withdraw my claim that the controls could be positioned properly. I'm not sure what I was thinking.

But the PU toggle could be the same. The P1 volume and suck switch could be the top two knobs. The P2 volume and P1 tone could be the bottom two knobs and the jack and P2 tone could be the toggles.

However without measurements or side by side comparisons that sounds more like a last ditch attempt to avoid admitting I'm wrong :)
 

kakerlak

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Yeah, like I was saying earlier, the rough shape of the control cavity is correct (that's how my old '71 S-100 was shaped), but the actual execution of the route looks like something hand-done with a chisel -- it's way too crude for factory. But it looks exactly like what you'd get if you took your old S-100 control cover, laid it on your homemade body and traced its outline, then carved out a cavity inside that outline, using hand tools. I really think somebody either wrecked their S-100 and made a new body, or just had the itch to make one that had that '70s "multi-wood" look and used the old neck and some of the old parts. Worth noting for the heck of it is that the bezel the HB-1 is mounted to looks homemade -- it's too thick around the edges and a little irregularly shaped.
 

Brynot

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Worth noting for the heck of it is that the bezel the HB-1 is mounted to looks homemade -- it's too thick around the edges and a little irregularly shaped.

The pickup bezel is identical to another HB-1 I own. Just saying because, even though it's hard to tell in pictures, I wouldn't want anyone to be thrown of course by that. There are so many things that are certainly wrong already.

Everyone has gotten me thinking. Originally, once I found out the neck just can't be properly adjusted, I thought I'd part this thing out to get some money back. However, after all of this debate, I realize I have a pretty unique guitar. Even if it's part homemade/ part factory, and regardless of who made it, it may be way cooler to make it playable. Reset the neck, maybe add wood under the fretboard at the joint in order to correct it? Perhaps that's why fate landed it in my hands? I also feel like this ugly duckling has gone on for decades - who am I to end its life? Yes, it's an anamorphic fallacy but I think we all look at our guitars as living beings. It's like I've adopted some stray mutt that can either be euthanized or washed up, shaved, dewormed, given love and played with.

So my next question for all of you Guild masters is what would you do to fix the neck. I've never even replaced any hardware other than pickups. I'm certainly no luther.
 

Los Angeles

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It keeps getting weirder. The body shape looks right and the two "wings" seem like they could have been cut from an original S-100 body, but they are flush with the maple center which appears to be a little to wide for the neck so perhaps the two "wings" are too wide as well.

Also - unless there was a change between '71 and '73 - the control cavity routing shape looks completely wrong.

cavity_zpsspfqit89.jpg

Actually, early S-100's had that more angular control cavity shape, which just makes this more mysterious.

Here's an example from 1971:
IMG_20160215_115148109_zpsebnwvu8k.jpg
 
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Qvart

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Actually, early S-100's had that more angular control cavity shape, which just makes this more mysterious.

I said "if" because I didn't have an early '70's sample to reference, but others confirmed the more angular shape earlier in the thread.
 
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I am with you Brynot, I have never reset a neck either but I think this may be a perfect opportunity. You don't really have anything to lose.
Good luck John
 

fronobulax

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So my next question for all of you Guild masters is what would you do to fix the neck. I've never even replaced any hardware other than pickups. I'm certainly no luther.

So what part of Virginia? Folks might have some recommendations is you need help or want to farm the job out.

As for what - I'd say at this point anything you can do to make it useful and playable would be A Good Thing. To the extent that you can preserve it's Guild ancestry, that's a plus.
 

bluesypicky

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Everyone has gotten me thinking. Originally, once I found out the neck just can't be properly adjusted, I thought I'd part this thing out to get some money back. However, after all of this debate, I realize I have a pretty unique guitar. Even if it's part homemade/ part factory, and regardless of who made it, it may be way cooler to make it playable. Reset the neck, maybe add wood under the fretboard at the joint in order to correct it? Perhaps that's why fate landed it in my hands? I also feel like this ugly duckling has gone on for decades - who am I to end its life? Yes, it's an anamorphic fallacy but I think we all look at our guitars as living beings. It's like I've adopted some stray mutt that can either be euthanized or washed up, shaved, dewormed, given love and played with.
So my next question for all of you Guild masters is what would you do to fix the neck. I've never even replaced any hardware other than pickups. I'm certainly no luther.

That's the spirit.
I must say you may have the most popular guitar on this board right now! Guild or not. Or half. :cool-new:
 

Qvart

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So my next question for all of you Guild masters is what would you do to fix the neck. I've never even replaced any hardware other than pickups. I'm certainly no luther.

That might be your only option to salvage anything from this (unless you like playing slide). I have no idea what a neck reset would involve, but if it's anything like Guild acoustics it could be a PITA. However, if you take the neck off and insert a shim of some sort it might raise the fret board so much that the neck would be even more out of line with the body at the back of the joint, and may not be able to be reset at all without modification of the joint where they meet. I'm totally guessing here. I have no real knowledge of what it would involve. Another solution - perhaps - would be to try to sink the tailpiece, bridge, and pickups lower into the body (although I have no idea if that's feasible).
 
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Brynot

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I'm sure no one has been holding their breath over this, but here's the reply I got back after sending the seller a very kind message asking for any info he may have.

"The man I got it from is dead . But he told me he got it from a guy who worked for the guilds Co."

So, yeah, not going to find out anything on that end.
 

bluesypicky

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I'm sure no one has been holding their breath over this

I kinda was actually.... thanks for the update, even if not of a nature to break the mystery.

So it's like the Templars' Holy Grail I guess... we can keep speculating for centuries to come! (except we have it in front if us)
 
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Brynot

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I kinda was actually.... thanks for the update, even if not of a nature to break the mystery.

So it's like the Templars' Holy Grail I guess... we can keep speculating for centuries to come!

Ha! I know. I've read enough Dan Brown. I need answers!
 

bluesypicky

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Ha! I know. I've read enough Dan Brown. I need answers!

Try "Holy Blood Holy Grail" written in the late 70's by Baigent, Leigh & Lincoln (after which Brown's book is heavily inspired).
It won't give you answers about your guitar, but very interesting read!
 
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