Extra Light acoustic strings

walrus

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Rather than hijack another thread, I'll start a new one - can't have enough string threads! Please don't judge me...

Actually, I have learned a lot from all the string threads on LTG. I tried the D'Addario Nickel Bronze strings based on a discussion Dave started - liked how they played, but less how they sounded - but an interesting concept. But as I looked through some of the latest string threads, I found very little discussion of Extra Lights. Rampside said he had some on a guitar or two, and there was a thread where Tom and Al talked about not losing volume because of the way the lighter string gauges vibrate, etc. - interesting stuff!

I've used D'Addario EXP16's (Light) for years. I tried EXP26's (Custom Light), but did not like how they sounded - something about the "mix" of gauges maybe.

But my playing has changed from mostly strumming to more riffing, arpeggios, and varied playing (with still lots of strumming!).

I tried the NB strings when WW said they played like electrics - that's what I want! Anyway, I've been playing D'Addario Phosphor Bronze Extra Lights for a few days - about 6 hours in, I am loving them! Perhaps a small loss in volume, but hard to say - my guitar has always been pretty loud anyway. But the tone is crystal clear, sounds just like the Lights, but I am really loving the smaller gauges - easier for single note playing, riffs, etc., and the strumming still sounds nice and full. Only slightly heavier gauge than the electric strings I use, D'Addario XL110W, the lightest gauge I can get with a wound G string.

I've got the EJ15's - uncoated - we'll see how they hold up, but they seem to be fine I am actually liking the lack of coating for a change, and of the course the price differential from EXP's.

walrus
 

Neal

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I have been playing Mediums for a few years now, thinking that they provided the greatest volume and sustain. Now I am starting to think that they are holding me back, especially when playing barre chords.

I am experimenting with Lights, and really am not noticing much, if any, drop-off in the tone. I still have Mediums on my F-50 and Orpheum, though...
 

adorshki

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But as I looked through some of the latest string threads, I found very little discussion of Extra Lights. Rampside said he had some on a guitar or two, and there was a thread where Tom and Al talked about not losing volume because of the way the lighter string gauges vibrate, etc. - interesting stuff!
I would chalk that up to the fact that as far as I know Guild only ever offered Extra lights (.010-.047) on the "Fxxce" guitars and possibly the Songbird/S4ce.
Whether that was due to thinner/more lightly braced tops or an attempt to get a more "electric" playing feel, I don't know, but I suspect it was a little of both.
In any case with most of us it seems the tendency is to move toward slightly heavier strings in search of volume.
In fact, I have to admit, I did string my F65ce with regular lights at first, because the "extra lights" were just so light I could bend the unwounds right off the fretboard, before I developed the finesse that guitar demanded.
Then when I finally learned "how to play it", I actually went with the Custom light .011-.052's hoping it would be an ideal compromise.
Well, I'm embarrassed to have to admit now that all these years I've had that set on there and been telling everybody the guitar gives up very little in volume and tone, I'd forgotten they were Custom lights.
Until about a month ago when I thought "Man, it's finally time for a string change" and saw the pack of Customs in my stash and thought to myself: "A-ha, I forgot about those, perfect, let's try 'em..."
And when I opened up the plastic sleeve realized I had tried 'em, it was only the paper folder in the plastic sleeve, LOL!!
Anyway, I LIKE 'em for my F65ce (Don't tell Txbumper I've got heavier-than-spec strings on my guitar, he'll have a field day***), but I suspect I would lose noticable volume if I tried 'em on either of my dreads.
But the D40 might gain a little bit of playability as you mentioned.

**The F65ce, has a very slight amount of bridge lift which MIGHT have resulted from stringing it with EJ-16's (.012's) for the first couple of years of its life when I first tried to make it more playable for me by going "heavier".
Just like TX has said recently, I thought to myself, "It's a Guild, it can take it".
But now I don't think that's necessarily a universal "given".
When I realized I need to lighten up my touch and was putting the custom lights on, I discovered the lift.
I was just giving it the old thorough visual examination, was even using a magnifying glass, more for pleasure than anything else, when I saw it.
It was so slight it could have been there since new and I just never noticed until I used the glass, but I'll never know and always wonder...
At least in all that time and with the Custom lights it's only become a bit less than 1/16" deeper.
Hmmm....you got me thinking now...I just might give 'em a try on the D40 too. It always felt bit "stiffer" than the D25 because of its neck profile. And it's due now too.
 
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walrus

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I had the bridge on my D64 repaired, as it has a slight lift beginning - probably 10 years ago now. Can't say whether it was from the strings, my playing, or just age.

I found the sound of the Custom Lights a little "off" - can't say why. They were EXP's, not the EJ's, don't know if the coating made a difference. As I said above, maybe the "mix" of gauges did not work on my particular guitar. But for some weird reason the Extra Lights sound great.

And what you said about bending the Extra Lights "off the fretboard" is a good point. These are definitely easier to bend. But I am working on establishing that "finesse" you mentioned, so they are much better for that. For most all of my guitar playing years, no one would call me a "finesse" player! So it's something I'm working on, trying to get better.

I've been trying to find the best playabilty without losing too much of anything else. And as I age (less than gracefully), I'm feeling it a bit in my wrist and hands, so that's another thing I was thinking about.

This article is kind of interesting, talking about the gauges of all the rock guitarists we know (like SRV and his supposedly using 13's!). Mostly electric strings are discussed, but the concept is the same.

http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/String_Myths_Part_1

walrus
 

txbumper57

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(Don't tell Txbumper I've got heavier-than-spec strings on my guitar, he'll have a field day***)

HA HA! Your Fear makes you powerful Al. Join me and I shall finish your training and your journey to the Dark Side will be complete!

TX
 
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txbumper57

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All kidding aside if you want to try something different then try it, It really is all about personal preference. As someone who used to perform live regularly I got accustomed to Medium Gauge strings and the many benefits for me that came along with them. For me it was all about Max tone, Volume, Feel, and strength of the medium gauge sets. I tried running lights when I was performing and for one reason or another I would always wind up breaking strings in the middle of an Hour and half set which leads to a lot of headaches when you are the Lead singer, only rhythm guitarist, and your own guitar tech.:hopelessness:

Lately I have been having some serious fall off on my left shoulder and according to the Doctor this last Wednesday my rotator cuff is non existent and my only option for relief is a total reverse shoulder replacement in the next 6 months. This will make surgery #10 and was Not the news I wanted to hear. While having trouble playing certain guitars with mediums over the last month I have started experimenting with lighter gauge strings on certain guitars. I always ran light EJ38's or EXP38's 10-47's on my 12 strings and it was getting harder to play them in standard tuning. I decided to experiment a bit and found a few sets of Daddario EJ41 9-45 Extra Lights. I swapped them on my F512 and it is much easier to play in standard tuning. Surprisingly there is not a lot of drop off in tone and volume as the F512 is a Howitzer of a guitar anyway. I also tried some EJ16's on my JF100CRV-NT and my F50 Maple to see how they felt. They do play easier in standard tuning and sound good when played softly but when you start really strumming them like I would if I was performing live you can tell they have a much lower ceiling before they start mudding up. On the other hand I picked up my Orpheum 12 Fret Slope today and it has EXP17 Mediums on it. I had no issues playing that guitar and it sounds great as always. That may have to do with the shorter 24.75" scale but who knows. My F50R still has mediums on it and it plays as easy as the lights on the JF100NT-CRV in standard tuning.

Bottom line is there is no right answer in string size for all guitars or all Guilds for that matter. You just have to find what is right for you with each individual guitar and what fits the situation you are in the best. Sure I love giving Al a hard time about his string choices but Honestly Who Doesn't?

Experiment, Enjoy, and Figure out what is right for you the individual. After all it all comes down to Preference and what is ultimately practical for you and the tasks you want to accomplish. If that means giving extra lights a try then by all means go for it! It is all part of enjoying your instrument and the time you spend playing that instrument.

TX
 

adorshki

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I have been playing Mediums for a few years now, thinking that they provided the greatest volume and sustain. Now I am starting to think that they are holding me back, especially when playing barre chords.
I am experimenting with Lights, and really am not noticing much, if any, drop-off in the tone. I still have Mediums on my F-50 and Orpheum, though...
Gets back to what we've discussed before, "Good" guitars are designed from the strings out, ie, the designer decides what gauge/top tension is going to be, and designs the rest of the instrument to support it.
New Hartfords represented a major sea change in Guild design, from lights to mediums.
And we've also discussed that a top designed for lights might be "over-torqued" with mediums and thus not be able to resonate at its full potential.
One would assume the converse to be true, that a top designed for mediums wouldn't get driven to its full potential with lights but if playability is improved that may well more than compensate for the slight loss of energy into the top.
After I learned about that and realized my D25 sounded better with lights than the mediums I tried once, besides being more playable, I hypothesized that a light string can have a bigger arc of travel than a medium for the same amount of striking force, and that arc represents "amperage" where baseline string tension represents "voltage".
And as most electricians'll tell ya, it ain't the voltage that kills ya, it's the amperage.
So it felt like a good analogy and why my current hypothesis is:
Lights can be just as loud as mediums if they're close enough to the top's optimum tension range and your technique is good enough.
Seems to make sense that going to extra (or custom) lights on a top designed for lights would yield similar results.
I never thought of trying it on my D40 because it was actually the "sonic runt of the litter", and I knew going to mediums was going to make it that much harder to play anyway, but now that it's finally "found its voice" I'm willing to experiment with Custom lights.
@ Jeff: I'd be kind of surprised if the coating was responsible for the "off" tone you experienced, even though I still have a prejudice against coated strings myself.
I just know the last time I heard 'em "live" they sounded "thumpier", less sustain.
Which was exactly what my buddy who put 'em on his Larrivee said he liked about 'em.
Not sure if they were even D'Addarios or what the gauge set was, though. Probably regular lights.
But I trust D'Addario to know what they're doing and their current explanation of their coating process lessens my doubts about 'em.
 
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adorshki

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HA HA! Your Fear makes you powerful Al. Join me and I shall finish your training and your journey to the Dark Side will be complete!
TX
Dang! He caught me!
Oh well, now you also know that the most important reason I never tried mediums on the D40 was that the neck already made it harder to play than the '25.
 

adorshki

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They do play easier in standard tuning and sound good when played softly but when you start really strumming them like I would if I was performing live you can tell they have a much lower ceiling before they start mudding up.
When I first started being able to hear that on the '25, I thought it was due more to the archback than anything else.
It's how I finally started being able to hear the difference between flatback and archback.
Doesn't happen with the D40 even now when its opened up.
Girlfriend made some cellphone vids of me a while back, and both archbacks have a lot more audible distortion than the '40.
 

txbumper57

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When I first started being able to hear that on the '25, I thought it was due more to the archback than anything else.
It's how I finally started being able to hear the difference between flatback and archback.
Doesn't happen with the D40 even now when its opened up.
Girlfriend made some cellphone vids of me a while back, and both archbacks have a lot more audible distortion than the '40.

Mine were mudding up on Flatbacks the same as the Arched backs. Both Were jumbos and they started at around the same audible level for both guitars.

TX
 

adorshki

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Mine were mudding up on Flatbacks the same as the Arched backs. Both Were jumbos and they started at around the same audible level for both guitars.
TX
So following my "amperage vs voltage" hypothesis, maybe if lights are driven to "full amperage" the waveforms get distorted? Or maybe they actually start getting "out of phase" with the top? (top's going one way when string's going another, or more accurately that the top can only go "back and forth" while the string's actually moving in a circle.)
Actually, gauge shouldn't matter in the question of waveform distortion at "full amps", but it could mean that mediums deliver "cleaner waveforms" at relatively higher amplitudes.
Ain't physics grand?
:glee:
I'm not married to that amps vs volts hypothesis btw, just looking for other evidence that would tend to support or refute it.
 
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walrus

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Interesting stuff, guys!

One wonders if my 32 year old very well-played D64 gives a $h1t what strings are on it - but I'm liking these extra lights anyway! And if the top hasn't opened up by now, it's not gonna...

And boy, I am really trying to avoid a veer and ask Al about the videos his girlfriend took - I have a visual that is really bothering me...

walrus
 

txbumper57

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Glad you are liking the Extra Lights Walrus!

Hey Al, If you want to get into the physics of the strings I would start with the Mass of a set of lights is less than the mass of a set of Mediums. That would lead to the the overall vibrating mass of the Mediums being more than the vibrating mass of the lights. This would mean the Mediums are transferring more energy than the lights into a stronger soundwave than the lights. Just a theory of course.

TX
 

Westerly Wood

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John Pearse has a string for easier playing, phosphor bronze and silk steel. They are fantastic, light gauged, .12-.53, and so easy to fret. They sound more like PBs but very soft on finger pads. A bit dark sounding, but all in all phenomenal. I would highly recommend them for the player who still wants punch and power, but desires a more flexible feel.

I gave up on mediums many months ago, mostly cause I could not tell enough power difference vs how much more difficult they were to play. Lights have plenty of volume, and while I like a fatter B and E string, lights offer a great compromise. And, they are easier on the bridge over time.

So now that I have settled on gauge, it became about what alloy? Due to my aging ears, I now prefer 80/20 bronze on my guitars. Well, really there is the one guitar I play anymore. And the D'addario EJ11s fit well. Cheap too. Their coated version of same string is great also.

To me, anything below .12-.53 feels too light, and if I again one day need a "lighter feel", those JP silk and PBs really solve my finger issues. The guitar matters too, the Santa Cruz just plays very easy, and the 1 and 3/4 in nut offers better room for me. 1 and 11/16 has become cramped, which definitely changes my outlook re guitars to buy.
 
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walrus

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I'm wishing I paid more attention in physics class in high school. :friendly_wink:

I remember just barely enough to follow what you guys are trying to say.

walrus
 

Quantum Strummer

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I suspect my little F-20 would play louder and compress less with heavier strings—it's currently rockin' a set of GHS PB .012s—but it's so lightly built that I wouldn't dare risk it. Besides, it makes me play more gently…a good thing.

-Dave-
 

adorshki

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And boy, I am really trying to avoid a veer and ask Al about the videos his girlfriend took - I have a visual that is really bothering me...

walrus
Worry not, I was in my 60-year old manifestation.
Clothed.
She just wanted to have something to cheer her up once in a while and I did a couple with the '25, a couple with the '40, and a couple with the F65 over a couple of weekends.
Problem was she loves going in for close-ups and didn't realize that getting in close was overdriving the poor tiny little mic in the thing, so they're all pretty distorted, but when listening to all of 'em one weekend it hit me that the '40 had the least distortion so I chalk it up to the flatback.
 

adorshki

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Hey Al, If you want to get into the physics of the strings I would start with the Mass of a set of lights is less than the mass of a set of Mediums. That would lead to the the overall vibrating mass of the Mediums being more than the vibrating mass of the lights. This would mean the Mediums are transferring more energy than the lights into a stronger soundwave than the lights. Just a theory of course.
TX

Right, but that's where the electricity analogy becomes handy, because the mediums, because of their mass, are at higher tension when at same pitch as lights, and if you put the same striking energy into each one, the lights will have a bigger arc of travel because they have less mass.
So right now I'm thinking they must also have a lower point of diminishing returns ("Mudding up") in terms of energy transfer.
 
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