Filthy 1973 Guild D25

Graphicism

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Howdy!

I've come across these forums numerous times while searching for Guild information,found it very useful and well, I have a bunch of questions so I thought I should sign up!

To give just a little back story - I have a 2009 USA Martin 00-15 that I bought after auditioning a lot of guitars which replaced a 2004 USA Martin 000x1 and before that a Taylor Big Baby I had previously. I thought the Martin sounded more warm and musical, as opposed to the Taylor sounding metallic and tinny if I'm being honest. I love the Martin but wanted a vintage/beater for the living room so I bought a 1971 (Made in Kalamazoo MI) Epiphone, it sounded decent however I quickly realized the neck was lifting and within a month was unplayable so I cut my losses and sold it. That's when I found these forums and went in search for a Guild. I bought a Guild m120 Mahogany which while stunning looking, felt cheap and sounded a step above a toy... apologies if I offend anyone. So again I turned around and sold.

I'm buying all these guitars used as I don't mind a few players nicks n bumps, I feel it adds character and generally with the older guitars I can buy American. That's when I came across the 1973 USA Guild D25 ... with a big hole in the side, nicks out of the headstock, repaired neck, drill holes in the bridge, scratches all over, chips, varnish build up, dust, dirt you name it, it had it. I took a gamble and at $300 I bought it. It arrived in a thin beat-up Dean box which I quickly un-packaged to make sure there was no further damage.

I've had the Guild D25 a little over a week and can easily say it's the best guitar I have ever played. It makes my Martin sound boxy and, well, a bit dead.

So here's the real question... Do I clean it? - I lightly dusted the inside and got clumps of dust and balls of hair (yuck!) as well as bits of wood from the damage. I started to give the body a light wipe with just water and a cloth and it's just moving the waxy(?) substance around and leaving nasty swirl marks on the body. I have a lemon oil for the fret board but I'm unsure how aggressive I can get with the body.

...would you clean it or leave it?

Cheers guys n gals!


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Lighter fluid(naphtha) and a clean soft cloth.

Removes the gunk and doesn't harm the finish!
 

sailingshoes72

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That's a beautiful mahogany top on that guitar. I'm glad it "fits the bill" and that you enjoy playing it! There are quite a few fans of "Hog" top guitars around here. I can't add any thing about cleaning the guitar... but, welcome to LTG!

Are you located State-side or in England/Europe?

Bill
 

Graphicism

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Lighter fluid(naphtha) and a clean soft cloth.

Removes the gunk and doesn't harm the finish!

That sounds very aggressive but I'm sure you know what you're talking about... considering the back is chipping and the (varnish?) build up on the neck is substantial it would still be okay?


That's a beautiful mahogany top on that guitar. I'm glad it "fits the bill" and that you enjoy playing it! There are quite a few fans of "Hog" top guitars around here. I can't add any thing about cleaning the guitar... but, welcome to LTG!

Are you located State-side or in England/Europe?

Bill

Thank you, yeah I am enjoying it for sure! I have another mahogany guitar but it doesn't sound anything like this... I'm really not sure why? Perhaps the age? The second hole? Haha!

I am British living in Florida for over 15-years... hence the howdy/cheers dialect!
 

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It won't hurt the wood or the lacquer. I have used it on several of my guitars, old and new, and it works beautifully!
 

Christopher Cozad

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Welcome to world of (Westerly) Guilds!

The marred finish on the back is relatively inconsequential - it is there to protect the wood from getting damaged (and it appears yours would have been severely damaged without a finish to protect it).

Regarding the "waxy" substance you have encountered...All sorts of yuck, grime and gunk can accumulate on a guitar over the years and, as Default pointed out, Naptha can typically safely remove (most of) them. Your guitar originally started out with a Nitrocellulose Lacquer finish and, while it is not resistant to all solvents, Naptha will not harm it. Next to fire, perhaps, sweat can be NCL's greatest enemy. You may be dealing with a finish that has been subjected to some sufficient combination sweat, body chemistry, cleaners, oils and acids and ... to turn an otherwise impervious, impenetrable substance into a sticky, slimy mess. I had just such an instrument and I eventually refinished it, as no amount of cleaning could remove the goo.

Give it a good cleaning a see what happens.

The holes in the bridge can be filled, they are non-issues (so long as no crack appears between them).

You gambled and won, in my view. Congratulations! Play it proudly.
 

justforfun

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I used naptha on my "snotless" D25 (it was really filthy) and followed it up with 3M Anti-Swirl polish using a small 4 or 4.5 inch foam pad on my electric drill. You have to be careful, but it turned out great. The naptha left a cloudy look to the finish. The polish is a very fine polish, not a rubbing compound. Then you have to get all the polish out of the cracks and dings. I used an automotive detail brush for that. Needless to say, that guitar has lots of mojo!
 

adorshki

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I'm buying all these guitars used as I don't mind a few players nicks n bumps, I feel it adds character and generally with the older guitars I can buy American. That's when I came across the 1973 USA Guild D25 ... with a big hole in the side, nicks out of the headstock, repaired neck, drill holes in the bridge, scratches all over, chips, varnish build up, dust, dirt you name it, it had it. I took a gamble and at $300 I bought it. It arrived in a thin beat-up Dean box which I quickly un-packaged to make sure there was no further damage.

I've had the Guild D25 a little over a week and can easily say it's the best guitar I have ever played.

It makes my Martin sound boxy and, well, a bit dead.
Welcome aboard "Graph", I gotta say the last part made me laugh out loud.
A Beat-to-S--t D25's the best guitar you ever played and shames your Martin.
Figures.
:glee:
A little mojo goes a long way, eh?
OK, in fairness, the Martin might benefit from a few more years of, er, experience.
How much playing time does it have/get?


So here's the real question... Do I clean it? - I lightly dusted the inside and got clumps of dust and balls of hair (yuck!) as well as bits of wood from the damage.
Dude, it's too late, You shoulda called us before you took the dust and hairballs out of it.
Hopefully you saved 'em and can put 'em back in.

Regarding the "waxy" substance you have encountered...All sorts of yuck, grime and gunk can accumulate on a guitar over the years and

DSC06960.jpg


This must be the guitar KostasK was thinking of over in the "Linseed Oil" thread, when he said somebody could treat their fretboard with used motor oil for all he cared. (Since it was their guitar.)
:biggrin-new:

Ok, yeah, I'd definitely naptha that stuff off..if it hasn't dissolved and blended into the NCL already, it will sooner or later, looks like 40 years worth of pure toe (thumb?) jam...
Can only imagine what the fretboard looks like....
 

Neal

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Shades of Gloppy, but not nearly as decrepit.

That guitar should clean up nicely with some naphtha. And whatever remains is OK. Because I KNOW what it sounds like!

AFAIAC, once the headstock is broken and repaired, it is a "player" for ever more. And that is a beautiful thing!
 

mavuser

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nice looks like the one from NYC/Albany/Vermont Craigslist. Congrats and enjoy! glad you rescued this one. This model is one of the finest Guilds ever made (I have 2 of them currently as well).
 

bobouz

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There's something so cool about a guitar that's led a very hard life, but can still bring an immediate smile.

Congrats, enjoy, and thanks for saving another sweet Guild!
 

killdeer43

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WELCOME TO LTG!
We love older D25s around here so I'd say keep at it. Regardless of everything else, that top looks great. If it sounds good and feels good, those things matter as much as anything.

Cheers,
Joe
 

Graphicism

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Thank you all for the welcomes and information sent my way. I've been unable to respond as I'm new here...

So I went ahead and used naphtha lighter fluid as suggested and well... I'm not sure how much to use but it isn't working. I tried it on a rag and rubbed it into the guitar and it diapered? So I instead doused a paper towel and tried that, same thing, it practically disappeared the second it touched the guitar. I tried in just one spot to see what would happen and I would swear it's removed the gloss and not the gunk? Such as the nice shine the guitar has, has now diapered where I've wiped in the naphtha.

See bottom left of this image -

DSC06991.jpg


You may be dealing with a finish that has been subjected to some sufficient combination sweat, body chemistry, cleaners, oils and acids and ... to turn an otherwise impervious, impenetrable substance into a sticky, slimy mess. I had just such an instrument and I eventually refinished it, as no amount of cleaning could remove the goo.

Ok, yeah, I'd definitely naptha that stuff off..if it hasn't dissolved and blended into the NCL already, it will sooner or later, looks like 40 years worth of pure toe (thumb?) jam...

Perhaps you are both right, no matter what I do this guitar isn't going to come clean? I could keep at it but I don't want to damage it... that lighter fluid is going somewhere...

A flatback D25, very nice!

Yeah I've noticed newer models, perhaps 1975 and newer have a rounded back; are they not as good? I believe mine is all solid mahogany wood correct?

nice looks like the one from NYC/Albany/Vermont Craigslist. Congrats and enjoy! glad you rescued this one. This model is one of the finest Guilds ever made (I have 2 of them currently as well).

Well I bought it on Reverb by way of Troy NY, I'm down in south Florida. Do you remember how much is was listed for?
 
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kostask

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My instincts tell me that the guitar is coated on silicone. That is why the shine is still on the part hat hasn't had naptha applied to it. The difficulty in removeing it also points to silicone.

The part of the left is probably the real shine of the nitro finish, with the silicone finally removed.

Graphicism, does the shiny part feel slippery or maybe even a little bit oily? If so, the guitar is coated in silicone from previous owners using guitar polish on it. You are doing the right thing for the guitar by removing it. If you really want to be sure, see a good local luthier (guitar repair man) and ask him to let you know.
 
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Westerly Wood

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Thank you all for welcomes and information sent my way. I've been unable to respond as I'm new here but I will now...

So I went ahead and used naphtha lighter fluid as suggested and well... I'm not sure how much to use but it isn't working. I tried it on a rag and rubbed it into the guitar and it diapered? So I instead doused a paper towel and tried that, same thing, it practically disappeared the second it touched the guitar. I tried in just one spot to see what would happen and I would swear it's removed the gloss and not the gunk? Such as the nice shine the guitar has, has now diapered where I've wiped in the naphtha.

See bottom left of this image -

DSC06991.jpg




Yeah I've noticed newer models, perhaps 1975 and newer have a rounded back; are they not as good? I believe mine is all solid mahogany wood correct?

Yes, all solid woods and all hog. Congrats!
 

Graphicism

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My instincts tell me that the guitar is coated on silicone. That is why the shine is still on the part hat hasn't had naptha applied to it. The difficulty in removeing it also points to silicone.

The part of the left is probably the real shine of the nitro finish, with the silicone finally removed.

Graphicism, does the shiny part feel slippery or maybe even a little bit oily? If so, the guitar is coated in silicone from previous owners using guitar polish on it. You are doing the right thing for the guitar by removing it. If you really want to be sure, see a good local luthier (guitar repair man) and ask him ot let you know.

I think I initially overreacted ... and the more I wipe it I can see that I am moving the waxy substance around. I have more luck with a harsh dish cloth to lightly scrape the surface in combination with the lighter fluid.

It doesn't feel oily or slippery but after I've been playing it a while it lightly sticks to my clothes... the fabrics of my clothes then leaves an imprint on the guitar. Bizarre I know but I'll keep at it a little everyday and report back if I ever get it cleaned up.


Yes, all solid woods and all hog. Congrats!


Hey that's the very one! Well bad shape or not it was a steal... I just have to put my OCD to the back of my mind when I look at it.
 

adorshki

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I think I initially overreacted ... and the more I wipe it I can see that I am moving the waxy substance around. I have more luck with a harsh dish cloth to lightly scrape the surface in combination with the lighter fluid.
It doesn't feel oily or slippery but after I've been playing it a while it lightly sticks to my clothes... the fabrics of my clothes then leaves an imprint on the guitar. Bizarre I know but I'll keep at it a little everyday and report back if I ever get it cleaned up.
Sounds like it might actually be be wax, carnauba?
Has been recommended as a way to protect the underlying NCL and buffs up well too, but maybe used way too much (and/or often) in this case?
Might even be the old "waxy buildup" frequently ascribed to some furniture polishes?
If softened by naphtha, might explain why it's taking imprint of clothes fabric?
Not sure how naphtha treats wax, I'd think it will cut it down but take a lot of work exactly as you're describing.
There's also the possibility that the NCL itself is breaking down and either IS, or is contributing to the problem, as Christopher described.
When NCL breaks down though, it's more "gummy/sticky" than "waxy."


Re your question on whether the flatbacks are more desirable than the archbacks, it's purely a matter of sonic taste.
The archbacks are pretty legendary and more of them were made (ie, sold) than the flatback versions, by far.
The change occurred gradually starting in probably late '72 and was pretty much complete by '74.
There was even a period when the archbacks still had 'hog tops, with the majority of those reported here being from '73.
 
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kostask

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Al is probably right about the carnauba.

I don't know how to remove it, off the top of my head. On cars, you could use a chemical cleaner or machine polish, but that is not something to do on a guitar. Sticky after warm does sound like a wax type substance, though. Perhaps, just keep going with agressive cloth and naptha, and lots and lots of elbow grease.The carnauba may be really old, or it may have combined with hand/finger oilss as well. NCL degrading won't react with the symptoms Graphicism described.
 
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