Filthy 1973 Guild D25

mavuser

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Hey that's the very one! Well bad shape or not it was a steal... I just have to put my OCD to the back of my mind when I look at it.

hey, id say you did pretty good as long as the playability is all there. its nice that the hole at least is on the treble side so you (or anyone else) doesnt see it when you are playing. still, it looks a little jagged and splintering. Id maybe get that repaired, Jacobs Custom Guitars is the preferred Guild Authorized repair shop and Tom Jacobs used to work for Guild. They are in Merrit Island, Florida if you are ever up that way, maybe have him look at it. you might ask him to clean it up some for you as well, if the lighter fluid doesn't work out (never tried it myself). and he can also get you a Guild truss rod cover.

A+ on rescuing this one. A good luthier can get the finish issue straightened out, one way or another.
 

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Sounds like they used a lot of Lemon Pledge on your guitar. That stuff is the devil, but I would keep using the naphtha.
 

Neal

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Might it be prudent to try gently heating the wood with a hair dryer to see if you can soften what is on there? Not so hot that you are melting glue or loosening braces. Just warm enough to scrub that stuff off.
 

Big-Al

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If the OP want's to remove the offending stuff, I think he's going to need to use a lot of clean rags with that naphtha. As soon as the rag gets dirty, then switch to a clean one. Otherwise all that will be done is to move the gunk around. Eventually he will run out of gunk . . . or rags . . . or patience. :friendly_wink:
 

marcellis

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I had a 72 - same guitar basically - from '1973 to 2007. Refinished it and reset the neck. Gave it to a son. 2nd best Guild I've ever owned.
 

chazmo

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Al is probably right about the carnauba.

I don't know how to remove it, off the top of my head. On cars, you could use a chemical cleaner or machine polish, but that is not something to do on a guitar. Sticky after warm does sound like a wax type substance, though. Perhaps, just keep going with agressive cloth and naptha, and lots and lots of elbow grease.The carnauba may be really old, or it may have combined with hand/finger oilss as well. NCL degrading won't react with the symptoms Graphicism described.
On cars, Dawn dishwashing fluid is normally used to take off wax/polish before applying new stuff. Might be worth trying a little soapy water on a sponge to a small area to see if it helps. I doubt it'd do any better than naptha though.

There's another product called "clay bar" (which is, literally, clay) that's used on cars to really clean off the outer surface dirt. That's also used with a sheen of Dawn/water or some other lubricant and the clay picks up impurities that simply won't wash off.

All that said, OBVIOUSLY, I'm not suggesting that someone wash down their guitar. Not like a car, that is. :)
 

kostask

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Clay bar would probably just slide over that stuff. Clay bar is not intended to be used for chemical cleaning, but removing embedded contaminants. It will also leave the guitar wtih micro-marring.

The dish soap idea may have some merit, and the grease cutters in some soaps are pretty good, so depending on what was put on the guitar, it may be better than the naptha.

One alternative is Meguiar's Mirror Glaze #9. Not Meguitar's Ultimate or Gold Class anything, ONLY Meguiar's Mirror Glaze #9 (I think it is up to Version 2 or 3 now). It has an extremely fine abrasive (far finer than any polish). has some chemical action to break down the stuff on the guitar chemically, and doesn't leave anything behind.
 

Neal

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I used 120 grit sandpaper on an incredibly abused D-35...

Probably a little heavy-handed for this job. But how about some steel wool?
 

kostask

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It would be hard to control either sandpaper or steel wool to remove the grease/polish and not damage, probably severely, the underlying lacquer. If the intent is to refinish the guiar afterward, then that would not be an issue. My impressoin is that the OP wanted to just get the goo off the op without damaging the lacquer.
 

chazmo

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Kostas, that sounds like a really good idea with the Meguire's. How would this compare to, say, Simonize? Are the abrasives in these products graded somehow so you can tell what you're using?

Yeah, Neal, gotta' agree sandpaper seems risky. I was going to suggest 0000 wool, but I still think this is risky. I might try it on a small area and see.
 

kostask

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Meguiar's #9 is one of the "hidden secrets" of local luthiers (multiple in my area use it) use to shine up guitars before returning them to their owners. Not used if the lacquer is cracked, but does an unbelievably good job on intact finishes. There is an exctremely fine grit in it, so fine that you cannot feel it if you rub it between your fingers, but it is there. It also acts as a chemical cleaner.

Simonize is like gravel compared to say, cement dust. Simonize is pretty uncontrolled in terms of how even the grit size is, and the grit inthe Simonzie polish is at least 100X bigger in terms of size. The Meguiar's Mirror Glaze products are really body shop supplies; they don't leave any residues behind that would interfere with painting a vehicle, and the abrasives are very tightly controlled.

The Meguiar's products all have numbers (#1, #2, #3, #7, #9, etc.) by intended use. However, the numbering system jumps all over the place, for example, the #1 is a Medium Cut cleaner, #2 is a Fine Cut cleaner, but #3 is a Heavy Cut cleaner, #7 is designed for use with paints prior to 1975, #9 is a Total Swirl Remover. But most people in the car industry would call a swirl remover a medium to heavy cut compound; the #9 is on the other end of the scale, as in one of the finest of fine polishes. So I haven't been able to find a pattern of any type in their numbering system. The descriptions are quite accurate; the medium cut cleaner (really a compound) is more aggressive than the fine cut cleaner (also a compound).
 
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davismanLV

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Hey kostask, is that anything like Meguiar's Heavy Cut Cleaner? They have several levels of them and honestly, I used to use that on table tops and anything that required the lacquer or whatever finish (poly or shellac) to be buffed to a high gloss. It was like a miracle! However, this guitar has a rather rough finish with parts of the finish being GONE altogether!! So you have to be careful what you use on it, because there is exposed wood.

To me the finish is kinda messed up anyway, so I'd probably use 0000 steel wool and go after it and see how it does. I mean, what's it going to do? Look BAD? Or just clean it and let it be. Unless you refinish, it's gonna be what it's gonna be, right?
 

kostask

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Meguiar's Heavy Cut cleaner is Mirror Glaze #3; same family, just more aggressive. It is at least 3 steps more aggressive than #9 (in terms of aggressiveness, it is #3, #1, #2, and then #9, going from most to least aggressive). #9 is a much thinner/runnier liquid than either #2 or #1. I don't have any first hand experience with $3, but I would expect that #3 is even more gritty than #2 or #1.

As for your guitar, its sort of a tough call. I would try the dish soap on a rag, or you can keep going with the naptha. I think, from the description, that whatever is on there needs to be removed chemically, rather than physically (dissolved/broken down chemically, vs. physically (scraped/rubbed off)). I don't have the guitar in front of me, though, so I could be off on that.

Have you tried Goo Gone on a small test spot? if you do,it may give a better indication of what is on there, Same with rubbing alcohol. If you do try them, put them on an take them off immediately, they will probably impact the finish. They will give you some inication of what is on top of the lacquer, and maybe a direction to go in.
 
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Neal

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Kostas, that sounds like a really good idea with the Meguire's. How would this compare to, say, Simonize? Are the abrasives in these products graded somehow so you can tell what you're using?

Yeah, Neal, gotta' agree sandpaper seems risky. I was going to suggest 0000 wool, but I still think this is risky. I might try it on a small area and see.

Man, you could take any grade of Meguiar's to that neck until approximately the the end of time, and that wavy gunk would still be there.

I'm not suggesting aggressive scrubbing with 0000 steel wool, but a very light touch, along with naphtha, with a lighter touch still as the OP reaches the actual finish.

I would not use aggressive measures where the finish is still in great shape (the top). But whatever crap is on there, it is impacting the vibration of the instrument, and thus the tone. And I can't imagine how uncomfortable it is to play that neck as it is now.

As many of you know, I took a D-25 down to bare wood a while back (Gloppy), and experienced firsthand how hard a vintage nitro-cellulose finish actually is. I went through numerous sheets of 80- and 120-grit sandpaper to get it all off (along with the polyurethane glop that was encasing it).

0000 steel wool will leave tiny scratches, so rubbing with the grain is the way to go, IMO, followed by Meguiers to level out the scratches.

If this were a D-55, I'd say "no way, take it to a luthier". But for a player-grade D-25, especially given that more conservative measures have failed...?
 
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Neal

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Meguiar's Heavy Cut cleaner is Mirror Glaze #3; same family, just more aggressive. It is at least 3 steps more aggressive than #9 (in terms of aggressiveness, it is #3, #1, #2, and then #9, going from most to least aggressive). #9 is a much thinner/runnier liquid than either #2 or #1. I don't have any first hand experience with $3, but I would expect that #3 is even more gritty than #2 or #1.

As for your guitar, its sort of a tough call. I would try the dish soap on a rag, or you can keep going with the naptha. I think, from the description, that whatever is on there needs to be removed chemically, rather than physically (dissolved/broken down chemically, vs. physically (scraped/rubbed off)). I don't have the guitar in front of me, though, so I could be off on that.

Have you tried Goo Gone on a small test spot? if you do,it may give a better indication of what is on there, Same with rubbing alcohol. If you do try them, put them on an take them off immediately, they will probably impact the finish. They will give you some inication of what is on top of the lacquer, and maybe a direction to go in.

Goo Gone might be worth a shot! I'd start with the neck to see how it works, given that it would take several applications before you got to the actual finish, assuming there is any finish left there.
 
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Br1ck

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At any rate, that is a beautiful guitar. That vintage is a good one for Guild. I have a 70 D 35.
 
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What hole in the side??? I didn't see a pic of that!

As far as the grunge on the guitar...remember it took decades to pile up on there...it ain't going away without a fight!

I had an old Gretsch Tennessean that looked really bad when I got it. I tried everything. Nothing really seemed to work...at first. But I kept at it. Did the same things over and over until it finally started to clean up. And I finished with the Meguires. It was never "pretty", but it cleaned up pretty good! Kinda like me! LOL!

The number one ingredient you need is patience!
 
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