Current HB-1 Pickups?

Mark WW · Aug 19, 2016

This may have already been discussed and if so, my apologies. Guild (Cordoba) shows their HB-1 pickups under parts/supplies. Does anyone know if these are the same pickups that Fender used to manufacture or are they new?

If they are indeed new, would they fit in a Corona manufactured Starfire III that has the Fender HB-1's?

Thanks in advance!

Mark

Quantum Strummer · Aug 19, 2016

The current HB-1s were, I think, developed while Fender still owned Guild. But they're not the same as the earlier Fender HB-1-alikes. The new ones are intended to be a recreation of the original '70s pickups. Size-wise they're identical to the oldies save for depth…the new ones are a touch shallower (shorter mounting legs). I believe they'll fit in some Corona-era Starfires, but other folks more knowledgeable on the subject will surely set me straight if I'm wrong.

-Dave-

GAD · Aug 19, 2016

The new ones are the same size as the originals and will not fit in "normal" humbucker rings like the Fender HB1s.

Here's a quick writeup I did on them: http://www.gad.net/Blog/2016/07/07/guild-hb1-pickups-new-vs-old/

guitarslinger · Aug 19, 2016

I recently purchased one of the new NS Bluesbirds. Although I like the Seymour Duncan pickups in the guitar, I've wondered if the new HB1's would fit. A Customer Service agent with Guild said they would not. But, his declaration was tentative and I'm wondering if anyone has better info.

Mark WW · Aug 20, 2016

GAD - thank you for your response. I did read your blog and it was very helpful and informative. Over the last few years I have been experiencing memory and cognitive issues so anything with diagrams or measurements just frustrates me. I always research before I ask so my apologies for asking a question that should have a pretty straight forward answer for anyone else.

BTW my new old Corona Red SFIII is beautiful.

Mark WW · Aug 20, 2016

OK - I read the blog again and not sure what years are vintage. Again I apologize for my mental state and being a bother. As I understand it, (without any modifications to the guitar body) the new Guild (Cordoba)HB-1's will not fit (drop in) to replace the Corona Fender HB-1's.

Are there any other pickups (I am retired and really would prefer no expensive boutique pickups) that would come close to the original HB-1's in capturing that sound?

Again sorry to beat a possibly dead horse but thanks for your understanding.

gilded · Aug 20, 2016

Mark, I can't tell you anything about whether the new HB-1s will fit a Corona guitar, but if you have to settle for regular sized hum buckers, the Seymour Duncans that came in Corona Guilds are fine pickups. It's true that some people here don't like them, but you can't please everybody and you could pick up a used set fairly cheaply.

I've had an '02 Corona Bluesbird before. I now have a '00 Westerly 'bird. They both have Seymours in them. I also found that the potentiometers that Guild used on both of those guitars were pretty bad. The biggest single change that improved the sound on my Birds was replacing the potentiometers. I never replaced the tone caps, by the way.

What I also like to do is to change the wiring to the set-up that vintage Les Pauls use, but that's just me.

I've been playing the Westerly 'bird a lot lately, through small Fender amps. I've been getting kind of a gritty distortion and I couldn't tell if it was the pickups, the chambered body in the Bluesbird, or the amps.

Last weekend I went to a jam that an amp builder/collector had. I brought the 'bird and no amp. They plugged me into a modified '70s Twin Reverb. The tone of the guitar was fantastic, sweet and pure as good in it's way as the real-deal PAF Gibsons I used to have or Post PAF era Gibson hum buckers in my '65 ES-335 (which have EXACTLY the same sound as the pickups in my neighbor's '64 335 that had a serial number 75 numbers away from the 335 that Clapton got the 'Woman Tone' with on the first Cream album.

Then they plugged me into a '72 Hiwatt 100 watt head and a Hiwatt 412 cab. Again, the guitar sounded sweet and pure.

Mark, having said all that, I love Guild HB-1 pickups, too. All I'm trying to say is that Seymours can be darn good pickups, too.

Good luck!

My apologies to people who don't like to hear about Gibson pickups!!

Quantum Strummer · Aug 20, 2016

guitarslinger said:
I recently purchased one of the new NS Bluesbirds. Although I like the Seymour Duncan pickups in the guitar, I've wondered if the new HB1's would fit. A Customer Service agent with Guild said they would not. But, his declaration was tentative and I'm wondering if anyone has better info.

If I were Guild I'd route my guitars for HB-1s and then make two sets of mounting rings, one for HB-1s and the other for "standard" size humbuckers. Kinda like Gibson did in the '60s & '70s with soapbar P90s and mini-humbuckers: one route, two pickup size options. Dunno if that's what Guild is doing, though…

-Dave-

Mark WW · Aug 20, 2016

I played the SFIII today and for what I was doing with a little bit of overdrive they sounded better than I recall. Not as muddy even when I dropped back the volume and cleaned it up. I don't usually jump the gun regarding making changes to a guitar before I receive it but so far...maybe I did or maybe it was the little teeny amp?

txbumper57 · Aug 20, 2016

As far as the Fender Made Pickups you have in your Corona Starfire are concerned, some people like them and think they are "good Enough" and some folks don't really like them and feel they can get more out of the guitar with different pickups. The Duncan pickups that Guild offered from Corona in Bluesbirds were not available from the factory in the production Corona Starfire guitars, Just the Fender made HB1's. Personally I fall in the category of not liking them and changing them out. The Corona made Starfires were not routed to be able to accept Original Larger Guild HB-1's (or new HB1's) from the factory, They were routed for standard sized Humbuckers instead.

If you find yourself wanting more out of your guitar than what the Fender made pickups offer you have a few avenues you can explore for a reasonable amount of cash.

1. If you like the look of the Fender Pickups you can always send them out and have them rewound to whatever spec you want. There are several companies that do this for a reasonable price with a relatively quick turn around time. I'm sure a member here has used a service like this in the past and can point you in the right direction if you need it. This option would allow you to retain your original Mounting rings with no modifications but the guitar would be down for the amount of time it takes to get your pickups back.

2. If you decide you want to change the pickups out, your options are really only limited to how much you want to spend on a set of pickups as your originals are standard size and there are 100's of options out there to explore. If you do decide to change out your originals I would suggest getting a new set of pickup rings for a Gibson 335/les paul style guitar (about $10-$15 from any guitar shop or online) as this will allow you to keep the originals with the original pickups. The new rings should mount right up to the original Ring mounting holes in your guitar. Also you don't have to drill the original pickup rings for the one adjustment screw on each side or go through the trouble of making an adapter to use the original rings and if you ever decide to put it back to original to sell you can just remount the original rings and pickups with no permanent modifications to the guitar.

3. As far as Standard sized pickup replacements I have heard that the Seymour Duncan 59's have some of the same qualities of the Original Guild HB1's. I am sure someone here will be able to say more or less if that is true. I have a set of Duncan Custom Shop pickups in one of my Starfires and I love them but they are on the high end of pricing at around $400-$450 a set. I have also used on a Budget GFS Hot Nashville Retrotron pickups and they sounded Amazing in my Starfire III and my Herb Ellis ES175. The GFS Pickups can normally be purchased brand new for around $70-$90 a set delivered to your front door and they have a large selection for many different tonal options. Every set of GFS pickups I have had I have loved and they are on par with any pickup maker as far as quality and tone plus they are 1/4 of the price. Here is a link to the GFS website with soundclips of their Retrotron series pickups. The soundclips are half way down the page and they have a ton of other pickups to look through as well.

http://www.guitarfetish.com/GFS-Retrotron-Hot-Nashville-Overwound-Humbucker-Chrome_c_120.html

4. One other option would be to modify your guitar to fit the Original or Reproduction Guild HB1's. To do this you will need to have the original pickup routes "Opened Up" on your guitar to fit the bigger HB1's and possibly drill different mounting holes for the bigger pickup rings as well. This is the most invasive and Permanent choice you have as the modifications to the guitar are not reversible. It is an option but I am not sure you can return the guitar to original if you wanted to or if the Original pickup rings would cover the new mounting holes if you tried to return it to original.

Best of luck in your search and personally if I was on a budget I would definitely check out the GFS pickups. Lots of Bang for the buck. Of course as always this is just my opinion and others may differ. Hope you get things rolling in the right direction!

TX

GAD · Aug 20, 2016

I had my SF4 pickups rewound so I could keep the covers.

As for alternatives, I like SD Seth Lovers.

gilded · Aug 20, 2016

GAD said:
I had my SF4 pickups rewound so I could keep the covers.

As for alternatives, I like SD Seth Lovers.

Tell us more about the rewinds. Who did it, what did they do, how much was it and how much did you like it?

Quantum Strummer · Aug 21, 2016

I'm not a fan of the Duncan '59s, not so much because of their tonal properties (they're fine for many or most purposes) but because they're not what they're marketed as. Same goes for Gibson's '57 Classics. Neither sounds much like any '50s Gibson humbucker I've had the pleasure of owning or playing. Too much midrange, not enough air in the treble.

HB-1s, the oldies anyway, have their own sound. If PAFs are a fruity red HB-1s are a dry white.

What they have in common with PAFs (and IMO all other great-sounding pickups) is clarity in the note attack.

Duncan's Seth Lovers are a real good choice if you want a clearer attack than most modern HBs along with more mid push than PAFs or even Patent #s. As for PAF clones…that's rabbit hole territory. Which PAFs? Some are lower in output with a snappy single-coil-like sound, others have more mid oomph and sound a lot like a hum-cancelling P90, still others retain a snappy attack transient yet are overall quite fat sounding. Whatever you're going for, there's likely someone out there making it or willing to make it for you.

-Dave-

gilded · Aug 21, 2016

Dave,

Setting aside our relative opinions of Seymour 59s, the case could be made that that's the pickup his reputation was built on as an original equipment supplier. A generation of players grew up with those pickups in their axes. What is the old adage? What it the golden age of music, guitars, literature? The Answer: whatever you were hearing/playing/reading when you were 12 years of age!

I've had 2 pair of PAFs that I remember, as well as a couple of 'single' ones. I've played a bunch of them on other people's guitars. I liked them all, but didn't think that I'd found the Grail. I also like the pickups in my '65 ES-335 a lot! I don't usually care for the slightly later, T-top patent number Gibsons, but some of them are great.

I like Guild HB-1 pickups I've heard a lot, too. I had a '71 S-100 a few years ago and I really appreciated those pickups. I understand your wine analogy completely and I agree with it.

Mark WW · Aug 22, 2016

txbumper57 said:
As far as the Fender Made Pickups you have in your Corona Starfire are concerned, some people like them and think they are "good Enough" and some folks don't really like them and feel they can get more out of the guitar with different pickups. The Duncan pickups that Guild offered from Corona in Bluesbirds were not available from the factory in the production Corona Starfire guitars, Just the Fender made HB1's. Personally I fall in the category of not liking them and changing them out. The Corona made Starfires were not routed to be able to accept Original Larger Guild HB-1's (or new HB1's) from the factory, They were routed for standard sized Humbuckers instead.

If you find yourself wanting more out of your guitar than what the Fender made pickups offer you have a few avenues you can explore for a reasonable amount of cash.

1. If you like the look of the Fender Pickups you can always send them out and have them rewound to whatever spec you want. There are several companies that do this for a reasonable price with a relatively quick turn around time. I'm sure a member here has used a service like this in the past and can point you in the right direction if you need it. This option would allow you to retain your original Mounting rings with no modifications but the guitar would be down for the amount of time it takes to get your pickups back.

2. If you decide you want to change the pickups out, your options are really only limited to how much you want to spend on a set of pickups as your originals are standard size and there are 100's of options out there to explore. If you do decide to change out your originals I would suggest getting a new set of pickup rings for a Gibson 335/les paul style guitar (about $10-$15 from any guitar shop or online) as this will allow you to keep the originals with the original pickups. The new rings should mount right up to the original Ring mounting holes in your guitar. Also you don't have to drill the original pickup rings for the one adjustment screw on each side or go through the trouble of making an adapter to use the original rings and if you ever decide to put it back to original to sell you can just remount the original rings and pickups with no permanent modifications to the guitar.

3. As far as Standard sized pickup replacements I have heard that the Seymour Duncan 59's have some of the same qualities of the Original Guild HB1's. I am sure someone here will be able to say more or less if that is true. I have a set of Duncan Custom Shop pickups in one of my Starfires and I love them but they are on the high end of pricing at around $400-$450 a set. I have also used on a Budget GFS Hot Nashville Retrotron pickups and they sounded Amazing in my Starfire III and my Herb Ellis ES175. The GFS Pickups can normally be purchased brand new for around $70-$90 a set delivered to your front door and they have a large selection for many different tonal options. Every set of GFS pickups I have had I have loved and they are on par with any pickup maker as far as quality and tone plus they are 1/4 of the price. Here is a link to the GFS website with soundclips of their Retrotron series pickups. The soundclips are half way down the page and they have a ton of other pickups to look through as well.

http://www.guitarfetish.com/GFS-Retrotron-Hot-Nashville-Overwound-Humbucker-Chrome_c_120.html

4. One other option would be to modify your guitar to fit the Original or Reproduction Guild HB1's. To do this you will need to have the original pickup routes "Opened Up" on your guitar to fit the bigger HB1's and possibly drill different mounting holes for the bigger pickup rings as well. This is the most invasive and Permanent choice you have as the modifications to the guitar are not reversible. It is an option but I am not sure you can return the guitar to original if you wanted to or if the Original pickup rings would cover the new mounting holes if you tried to return it to original.

Best of luck in your search and personally if I was on a budget I would definitely check out the GFS pickups. Lots of Bang for the buck. Of course as always this is just my opinion and others may differ. Hope you get things rolling in the right direction!

TX

txbumper57 - Excellent response. Thank you so much. I have been really happy with all of the GFS (Mean90,Dream90,59's, Memphis, and Liverpool) pups. I particularly like their Mean 90's and the Memphis pups.

I do know a guy on another Forum that does custom wounds so I am going to plat it stock for a while (maybe they sound better since my hearing loss LOL!) then go with the custom. I like the aesthetics of the stock pup covers.

Mark WW · Aug 22, 2016

Actually a lot of good responses and the red vs white wine I love as I am an ex-wino...at least a day at a time.

txbumper57 · Aug 22, 2016

Mark WW said:
txbumper57 - Excellent response. Thank you so much. I have been really happy with all of the GFS (Mean90,Dream90,59's, Memphis, and Liverpool) pups. I particularly like their Mean 90's and the Memphis pups.

I do know a guy on another Forum that does custom wounds so I am going to plat it stock for a while (maybe they sound better since my hearing loss LOL!) then go with the custom. I like the aesthetics of the stock pup covers.

No problem Mark WW, Looks like you have a plan! I played mine for awhile until I found a set of Duncan Custom Shop Phat Staple pickups that I fell in love with. They are a perfect cross between the Original Dearmond Dynasonics and the early Vintage P90 tones that I love. I have them in my late Westerly Starfire V. Granted they don't sound like Original HB1's but I wasn't going for that tone. I am a big fan of Late 90's Westerly made and early 2000's Corona made Starfires as I find the quality of the builds to be excellent and the standard sized pickups allow me to put whatever pickups I want to in them without actually having to modify the guitar. Best of luck to you and I hope you get what you want out of it!

TX

Quantum Strummer · Aug 22, 2016

gilded said:
Setting aside our relative opinions of Seymour 59s, the case could be made that that's the pickup his reputation was built on as an original equipment supplier. A generation of players grew up with those pickups in their axes. What is the old adage? What it the golden age of music, guitars, literature? The Answer: whatever you were hearing/playing/reading when you were 12 years of age!

Yeah, sonically the Duncan '59 is a-okay. I just mildly object to it being called the '59. Seymour knew what PAFs made in 1959 generally sound(ed) like. That's not what he was going for. What I suspect he sought, and feel he achieved, was his ideal version of a '60s/70s Patent # pickup. That pickup, not the PAF, was the dominant sound (humbucker-wise) of what became "classic rock" and he was rightly catering to that sound.

I've also never heard what I'd consider to be a Holy Grail example of any pickup design. Then again I'm not on the lookout for that. One of the reasons I've owned so many dang guitars is that I enjoy exploring all the variations, pickup- and other-wise!

I do like T-tops when I'm in the mood for darker but not muddy HB sounds—I've found them to be very consistent too—and currently own two very fine guitars equipped with 'em. The funny thing about PAFs is I've never bonded with any of the guitars I've owned that they've been in.

I've loved the sound of HB-1s for decades. A friend of mine has a mid-70s X-175 that, when I first heard & played it, just wiped the floor with the '58 ES-175 I owned at the time. The Gibson was a nice enough guitar but the Guild was and is a live wire. I get to play that Guild on a fairly regular basis but prior to this spring I'd never owned an HB-1-equipped guitar. The two S-100s I now have confirm how fine these p'ups are. Hope the new ones about to go into my Nightbird are in the same league!

Glad the wine analogy didn't come off as too cork sniffer-y. :triumphant:

-Dave-

kakerlak · Aug 22, 2016

I have a few guitars that are pushing holy grail category for me, tone-wise, in that I couldn't imagine them sounding any better. One is a mahogany-bodied G&L S-500 from the early '80s (factory re-necked in the early '90s). Another is my '64 Jazzmaster and I'd throw my '94 X-700 in there, too. The G&L, though, might be the best -- the Jazzmaster sounds incredible, but there's a tiny bit of string-to-string volume imbalance that can sometimes leave notes lost in the mix (mainly w/ little finger on/off stuff w/in chords).

I bet I've got like $300 or less in that G&L and even today it's still worth well under $1k, but it's just about as good as it gets, functionally.

Mark WW · Aug 22, 2016

I have a set of SD Phat Cat pups in my Eastman T486B and they sound great. I am probably not as picky as most folks. I looked at the price of the Staples...way out of my league. At that price an open chord should open the Pearly Gates and I should hear a choir of angels singing. But then again it would be me playing so hard to justify anything over fifty bucks per.

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