NGD: NS S-200 Thunderbird

Aged white, black guard for me, too!

I'll have the cream finish & black guard but with the red pickup switches. :watermelon:

-Dave-

Nice score, QS! Glad to hear a solid review of this reissue from an LTGer.

My Sunburst Bird arrived early and I got to mess with it today. For a mahogany body it's surprisingly lighter than expected. I've been adjusting the action. Need to dial it in with subtle truss adjustment, height and intonation. The new strings can't stay in tune. I adjusted the bridge PUP up close to the strings and this balanced the pickup output nicely.

The biggest "complaint" I have now is the performance of the Hagstrom vibrato. Having been weened on a Hagstrom from my first S-50 guitar in the '60's I'm pretty knowledgeable of its feel and performance. The new version has some subtle modifications that should make it better but I'm not convinced. The vibrato arm inserts into a tubular sleeve and boss and is held in place with a special locking screw. On my guitar the tubular sleeve and boss are not tightly secured together like a vintage Hagstrom unit. This results in the vibrato arm and boss to loosen easily. On a vintage Hagstrom tremer you get a tight assembly with a finger tight nut. I had to use a large flat head screwdriver to tighten them up on the new reissue. I used so much torque that I thought I might strip the threads. It seems to be working now. I adjusted the spring tension to be a little softer.

The Latest Hagstrom vibrato design has a nylon or plastic washer under the boss which in principle should make it easy to rotate the vibrato arm out of the way. I always loved this feature on a vintage Hagstrom vibrato where the arm stays where you put it. Fender Vibrato's just flop around. However the new design is tighter than the vintage design which makes you use more force to push it out if the way. Not as easy to do with your pinky finger as vintage unit.

The new Thunderbird uses a traditional adjustomatic type bridge. I don't like how it behaves with the Hagstrom vibrato. The vintage Hagstrom bridge setup wasn't great butthe bridge would rock back and forth and the bridge saddles didn't flex. The vintage design did tend to poke and rub against your thumb palm. The new design doesn't do that but the saddles flex. I am going to try out a bridge with rollers that I think might be the best combination.

One final thing... the vintage Hagstrom arm has a black plastic handle part that is a constant diameter in length with a simple hemispherical curve at its end. The new vibrato handle is capped off like a Fender Strat vibrato arm. That may be more comfortable for many guitarist familiar with a Strat but it is an awkward feeling for vintage users.

In terms of playability and tone...it is close to the real deal. The finish is, as would be expected, a bit more sticky but it has the Thunderbird feel and tone. For first time users of a guitar with this type of control setup...it will require some tweaking around to get good tone out of all positions when the filter capacitor is switched into the circuit. It has a tone that is bright and with the lower frequencies filtered off comes across less loud. I think this is the "Fletcher Munster" effect where the human perception of changes with loudness influences your perception tone.

Over all this guitar is cool and with some adjustments and possibly part replacements could be very close to the vintage unit it is based upon.

M

I was able to snug up my T-bird's vibrato arm without too much effort by aligning the locking screw with the indentation in the arm. Seemed secure. But after giving it a spin I did what I usually do with vibratos: remove the arm. If I were to use it I'd definitely try out a roller bridge.

Having intonated the ABR-1-alike bridge for my Nickel Rocker 11s I've found I'll need to reverse the A & D saddles with the next string change. As is typical with these bridges the three lower string saddles are on backwards to allow for more rearward adjustment. But with these strings, combined with the T-bird's bridge location, I need a bit more forward adjustment on the A & D. Not a big deal, and at least the low E is dead on.

-Dave-

congrats, I like it!

After a couple days with GHS Burnished Nickel Rocker 11s on my T-bird the neck pulled forward a little. So I gave the trussrod a clockwise tweak, and while at it also lowered the bridge a hair on the bass side. Plays & feels real nice. We'll see how the neck holds…

BTW, Guild provided two allen wrenches with the T-bird—the larger of which is presumably for adjusting acoustic guitars—but failed to include the appropriate hex socket wrench for this guitar. Demerit. I used a 9/32" socket but the correct one is likely a 7mm. Close enough if you're careful. Also, I noticed the output jack hex surround was loose—it was vibrating when I strummed hard—so I tightened it with a larger socket.

As M says this guitar has a dynamic, ringing, articulate '60s sound. I can hear why some folks who bought S-100s with these pickups may've been underwhelmed. It's not the fuller '70s HB-1 solidbody sound. But, while I like that meatier sound, at heart I'm a bright & chimey guitar guy. This guitar certainly does that.

-Dave-

Okay, now I'm stoked. All it took was a half-turn of one screw and a full turn of the other. I'm referring to the height adjustment screws of my T-bird's neck pickup. I raised the pickup by the amounts I've just mentioned—half a turn on the bass end and a full turn on the treble—and there it was: that snarly edge I knew the p'up had in it but hadn't yet heard. I'd planned to do a tonal comparison tonight between the S-200 and my '71 S-100 (which resembles the T-bird in both feel and acoustic sound) but the latter never made it out of its case.

The T-bird seems happy now with my heavier (11 gauge) strings. Neck relief is a tad lower than right after I tweaked the trussrod last night, which I anticipated, but it hasn't changed since this morning. I played it this evening for ~90 minutes, which went by in a finger-snap, and it sounded sweet all the way through. I also messed around with the volume pot and was pleased to find I could dial it back quite a bit without the basic tone disappearing. Very handy. Keep in mind, though, I'm using a Vox amp with a lot of Top Boost treble on tap. Into a darker amp YMMV.

I ran the guitar through my meat & potatoes pedal chain: a bunch of recent reissue DOD gizmos (buffer/boost, compressor, envelope filter, overdrive), an EHX Stereo Pulsar tremolo and my trusty Catalinbread Topanga reverb. The T-bird plays well with all this stuff, especially the 440 filter and 250 overdrive. Even the 280 compressor, which can be squashy & pumpy with some guitars, behaved itself. (I use the compressor mainly to even out the envelope filter.) Neck pickup into the comp + filter: killer. Me happy.

One issue I've run into is a bit of stickiness in the guitar's nut. Even with healthy amounts of graphite in the slots I'm still getting some hangup when making small tuning adjustments. Getting the D & G strings in proper tune tonight was a total PITA, though once I got 'em there they held fast. Think I'll have to floss the nut slots before my next playing session.

-Dave-

Quantum Strummer said:

One issue I've run into is a bit of stickiness in the guitar's nut. Even with healthy amounts of graphite in the slots I'm still getting some hangup when making small tuning adjustments. Getting the D & G strings in proper tune tonight was a total PITA, though once I got 'em there they held fast. Think I'll have to floss the nut slots before my next playing session.

-Dave-

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That's expected if you went to a heavier gauge string. The nut slots need to be widened a touch since they were cut for the thinner gauge strings. I trust your "floss" is some abasive?

AcornHouse said:

That's expected if you went to a heavier gauge string. The nut slots need to be widened a touch since they were cut for the thinner gauge strings. I trust your "floss" is some abasive?

Click to expand...

Yeah, my "floss" consists of pieces of used wound string. I did widen the slots when I upped the string gauge but I guess I didn't smooth out the D & G slots enough. In my experience a .02 wound string works as well for this as abrasive cord, though I have the latter too.

-Dave-

Okay, nut slots smoothed out and string hangups gone. Tuning up tonight was quick & easy. The neck hasn't moved relief-wise in the last 36+ hours so I think it's good to go.

I gave the T-bird a spin through one of my favorite gizmos, a c. 1978 (v3) EHX Electric Mistress flanger. I love phase effects, including Univibe type stuff and flangers. Chorus I'm okay with if it's in stereo but otherwise I find it often too pitchy. The original Electric Mistress is IMO the most articulate flanger around. You have to work to make it overbearing, whereas most other flange effects (including EHX's own Deluxe version) are overbearing by default. The Hartman Analog Flanger is a really good modern version, if you can find one. (The company seems to have disappeared, which is a shame.) The originals have a reputation for being noisy but I find they quiet down if you use a good buffer in front of 'em. I usually use a J. Rockett Archer Ikon (Klon clone) for this, which adds some midrange sweetness and also lets me compensate for the Mistress' built-in volume drop, but tonight I went mostly battery-powered so I used a DOD buffer/boost instead.

Anyway, once again the T-bird shone. With both pickups on and the Mistress close to the "Gilmour settings" I got a fab whooshy sound I could've spent all evening with. Good thing I tried out the bridge pickup alone 'cuz it was even better. Rolling the guitar's tone back to ~7 (out of 9) removed any spiky tendencies while still letting the whole thing cut. Just great!

Here's a pic of the pedal setup. I put the Mistress in an effects loop because otherwise it colors my sound somewhat even when it's not switched on.



I guess that about covers it for the Thunderbird. Cool guitar, plays & sounds terrific.

-Dave-

Appreciate all the info and impressions!

Just ordered a burst one from Sweetwater.

I'm continuing to really enjoy playing the T-bird. Can't remember bonding so easily with a brand new electric guitar since the first one I ever bought (a Peavey T-60 c. 1979). Lotsa cool tonal shades to be found by experimenting with the volume & tone pots and the bass cut switch. I can steer the guitar's tone toward Rickenbacker or Gibson Firebird or Starfire/335, and with both pickups going it does a credible hollowbody Bluesbird too.

-Dave-

Great review and especially like the follow-ups. Thanks!

Quantum Strummer said:

I'm continuing to really enjoy playing the T-bird. Can't remember bonding so easily with a brand new electric guitar since the first one I ever bought (a Peavey T-60 c. 1979). Lotsa cool tonal shades to be found by experimenting with the volume & tone pots and the bass cut switch. I can steer the guitar's tone toward Rickenbacker or Gibson Firebird or Starfire/335, and with both pickups going it does a credible hollowbody Bluesbird too.

-Dave-

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T-60 Love! Those guitars were cool (and heavy) as hell!

The world's first CNC-machined guitar.

When I bought my first nice electric it came down to the Guild S300A-D and the Peavy T-60. I have a thing for oddly shaped guitars, apparently.

This is a T-60 for those who have never seen one:

GAD said:

T-60 Love! Those guitars were cool (and heavy) as hell!

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Yep! Mine was finished "natural"—all the rage then—and the body had a lovely grain pattern. Dense & heavy ash, which sonically gave it a strong percussive attack. I liked that I could use the tone knob to vary the pickups between HB and single coil mode. I sold it in 1983 to help finance some post-university "I don't wanna job yet!" traveling.

-Dave-

Has anyone who's familiar with the original, played one of these, and if so, can you compare? I have grave reservations about buying Asian guitars, and am still looking for an original, but these LOOK really nice.Thanks.

polkadothound said:

Has anyone who's familiar with the original, played one of these, and if so, can you compare? I have grave reservations about buying Asian guitars, and am still looking for an original, but these LOOK really nice.Thanks.

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There are a couple of vintage ones on Reverb, if you can afford them. I don't have a vintage T-bird, but the NS one I got holds up quite well to my other vintage Guilds. The neck is a little wider (1-11/16") than the typical vintage Guild electric (1-5/8"), but otherwise feels quite good.

I think that's an important point. I have never played an original S200, or a reissue either for that matter, but many of the Guilds made during the era of the originals have thin and/or narrow necks that not everyone likes.