Anybody following the "Stairway to Heaven" trial?

adorshki

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.where were you for 40 years before that??? u must have heard the song on the radio all the time...you didnt realize it was yours until now??"
Sounds like you missed my earlier comments: sole author of "Taurus" Randy (Wolfe) California died in 1997.
Suit was brought on behalf of his estate.
His history during the time "STH" was just hitting the airwaves (really not until late '72) suggests somebody dealing with a clinical depression, he'd actually left the business.
As an update to my comments above, I reviewed the liner notes in the Best of Spirit CD re-issue yesterday, and Ed Cassidy commented that Randy was in fact irritated by it, did consider it a rip-off way back then, but Ed advised him to try to let it go (the anger).
I still suspect a major issue was trying to build a viable case, and finding a lawyer willing to take it on.
Ed Cassidy was Randy's stepfather, a trusted figure, and had a LOT of professional performing experience in the biz before joining his stepson in founding Spirit, and I suspect he saw it as a futile case back then, according to the customs of the time, and advised Randy so.
I just found some corroboration of that on Wiki, on their "Stairway to Heaven" page:
"In May 2014, Spirit's bassist Mark Andes, and a trust acting on behalf of California (who died in 1997), filed a copyright infringement suit against Led Zeppelin and injunction against the "release of the album containing the song" in an attempt to obtain a writing credit for the deceased guitarist.[27] A lack of sufficient resources was cited as one of the reasons that Spirit’s members and their survivors did not file the suit earlier. A friend of California's mother explained: "Nobody had any money, and they thought the statute of limitations was done", adding, "It will be nice if Randy got the credit". If the Spirit lawsuit had been successful, past royalties earned by the song—estimated at more than US$550 million—would not have been part of the settlement, but the publisher and composers may have been entitled to a share of the future profits."[28][29]
So, even though I do actually believe "it's not true", I still get why it took so long.
And don't get me wrong, I don't mean to sound like I'm arguing, but your understandable question gave me an opportunity to point out this was nowhere near as much of a money grab as one might suspect, if one didn't look a little deeper.
(And assuming Wiki's recap of the damages sought is accurate)
You know what the real tragedy is here?
Randy California's kid doesn't have a father.
 
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mavuser

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i didnt miss any posts, and im not here to argue either; suffice it to say we agree to disagree. this is a textbook cashgrab attempt, and an epic fail at that. They did not write STH, they did not write part of STH, and if they did, they gave it away by not taking action when the time was most appropriate. im sure they have reasons they did not take action at that time, but if they were so positive the song was "stolen" then they should have. We all have things we would change and do differently if we could go back in time. and guitarists "borrow" licks from each other all the time. They didnt write the song. And they did not act on any percieved similarities in sound when they needed to, approx 45 years ago!
 

twocorgis

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i didnt miss any posts, and im not here to argue either; suffice it to say we agree to disagree. this is a textbook cashgrab attempt, and an epic fail at that. They did not write STH, they did not write part of STH, and if they did, they gave it away by not taking action when the time was most appropriate. im sure they have reasons they did not take action at that time, but if they were so positive the song was "stolen" then they should have. We all have things we would change and do differently if we could go back in time. and guitarists "borrow" licks from each other all the time. They didnt write the song. And they did not act on any percieved similarities in sound when they needed to, approx 45 years ago!

What my pal Eric said! And I'll add to that, if I never hear "Stairway to Heaven" again, it'll be just fine with me.
 

adorshki

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i have to disagree here, it can be done right, with much new creativity behind it, and sound amazing. of course, proper credits should always be aknowledged, and paid monetarily. but with that said, there is plenty of garbage out there too that I completely agree would fall into the "embarrassment" category. sampling is just another version of "covering" a song, its just a different degree of variation and creativity. that is my opinion at least.
I actually agree with you on that.
I heard the intro to "You Only Live Twice" sampled somewhere a while back, and it's so perfect in its original form and fit so well, it worked and made me happy to see it get tribute.
And maybe a new generation would be impressed and curious enough to go seek out the sampling source, and thus possibly generate more royalties for the creator.
In an ideal world.
NO snark intended.
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adorshki

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i didnt miss any posts, and im not here to argue either; suffice it to say we agree to disagree. this is a textbook cashgrab attempt, and an epic fail at that. They did not write STH, they did not write part of STH, and if they did, they gave it away by not taking action when the time was most appropriate. im sure they have reasons they did not take action at that time, but if they were so positive the song was "stolen" then they should have. We all have things we would change and do differently if we could go back in time. and guitarists "borrow" licks from each other all the time. They didn't write the song. And they did not act on any percieved similarities in sound when they needed to, approx 45 years ago!
I guess I have a problem with this "they" thing.
There was no "THEY" back then.
California was sole author and the only guy who bitched, and his trusted stepfather who had a whole lot of experience in the biz, told him to get over it.
What would you as a 21 year old kid with no money do?
Suit was brought by their bass player and a trust who didn't have anything to gain except get some recognition for authorship for the California estate, and whatever co-authorship credit royalties might accrue in future.
"PAST ROYALTIES would NOT have been part of the settlement".
So I don't see the massive cash grab others do.
 
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mavuser

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Al your missing everything I wrote. and so did Frono. its not just about now and moving forward, or the re-re from 2014. eveything would have been different if THEY made the claim in 1972. You just cant go back and "hit the reset button." there may be a "current" text to the subject lawsuit, but the song is stil the same song from 45 years ago. It all applies. THEY are making a current claim on a legendary song that has been on the radio and been famous for all of this time, you cant do that. if its yours, you should have had roaylties from the beginning, or as soon as its brought to your attention. if its not yours than go away.

THEY is anyone making this outlandish claim, past or present. And just my opinion, the guys step father gave him good advice when he told him to let it go and not pursue a claim back then. the result would have likely been the same as now. He just didnt write Stairway. that's cool for him if Page got some ideas from his records, or borrowed a signature lick at the time. but he just didnt write the song.
 

mavuser

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What my pal Eric said! And I'll add to that, if I never hear "Stairway to Heaven" again, it'll be just fine with me.

yes ive had this intro and the beginning verse in my head now for days, im ready to puke!!
 

adorshki

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THEY is anyone making this outlandish claim, past or present.
OK now i get it.

And just my opinion, the guys step father gave him good advice when he told him to let it go and not pursue a claim back then. the result would have likely been the same as now.
Probably so, but I guess what I was really trying to show was that the material wasn't "abandoned", he just couldn't afford to press suit and any lawyer who refused to take it on contingency turns out to have been correct and I actually would have agreed with that lawyer even way back then.

He just didnt write Stairway. that's cool for him if Page got some ideas from his records, or borrowed a signature lick at the time. but he just didnt write the song.
Yep, I said it a few posts back myself, "It's not there".
But as a Spirit fanboy I had to present those mitigating factors as to why it took so long.
And after all a judge did agree that it wasn't a prima facie invalidation of the case.
Kind of tangential to this, I was just refreshing my Canned Heat history, and there was a band RIFE with borrowing and rewrites of old blues classics just like Page and Plant were accused of several years back...and were even Spirit's neighbors in LA's bohemian Topanga Canyon neighborhood.
So in the late '60's it really DID seem to be seen as acceptable to "borrow like hell", or maybe the rights had expired, or maybe the authors weren't around to press suit, or maybe by the time they caught on the band was bankrupt....
Ahhhh, the music biz...it's tough way to make a living but at least the money sucks.
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twocorgis

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Ooooooooooo, psych leads!
icon_cool.gif
 

walrus

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This could go on forever! Just check out youtube, which has many clips of songs that sound like other songs - there's so many it's laughable. A good lawyer could have field day if these suits were given any merit - luckily they usually do not.

I'll give you just one link, you are welcome to get lost in many others. This one is my favorite, because it has the complete note for note copy of the Beatles' "Sexy Sadie" riff that Radiohead copied in "Karma Police". I remember noticing it as soon as I heard "Karma Police" and thinking it was funny! BTW, it is song #9 in the clip - any Beatles fans will have to acknowledge the humor in that!

It also has the Puff Daddy ripoff of Andy Summers' guitar on "Every Breath You Take" I mentioned in a previous post. It's song #6.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPhVIoCpPWs

walrus
 

adorshki

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Ooooooooooo, psych leads!
icon_cool.gif

:biggrin-new:

Wash that earworm out of your mind with new improved Blue Cheer.
new-300.jpg

That one was a changeover period for them.
"Summertime Blues" is on this one:
blue-cheer-outsideinside-gatefold.jpg

Most of that album is extremely heavy and psychedelic, this'd be a little more representative of their sound in '68:

If you like that the whole album's up on youtube.
As far as I can tell they ripped off the whole Yardbirds thing from "Happenings 10 Years Time Ago".
Not that I hear anything wrong with that.... :highly_amused:
 

adorshki

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This could go on forever!
Any body remember the single version of "My Little Lucy" by Crabby Appleton?
Almost a complete rip of the second section of "Bring it on Home".
For chronological perspective as to "how far back does this go?" with rock'n'roll, at least, I saw this movie for the first time just a few months back:
220px-Untamedyouth.jpg

And virtually every song in it sounded like a Bill Haley or Elvis number.
Like they followed a recipe or sumthin'.
Oh waitaminnit.... they did!
 
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