Questions about Dearmond Dynasonic and T-100D

Mungi

Junior Member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Messages
61
Reaction score
23
Since I am a bass player I normally do not hang out in these parts of the forum. Anyways, I'm in the market for buying an old hollowbody. Lately I have been focusing on two options - either a Starfire III (though a II will do) with dynasonics or a T-100D with Franz.

Two questions to the experts:

Are the Dearmond Dynasonics the same as the Dearmond 2k? I know Dearmond 2000 and 2k are not the same. I liked the sound of the 2k on a Dearmond M-75 I tried years ago. I remember them as sound like P90s only better.

Will a T-100D give too many feedback issues in a band setting? I absolutely love the sound of the Franz pickup. They have a lot more sparkle and sound more alive then the new "Frequency Tested" pickups, otherwise I would go for a Newark M75. If I had the money I would go for a M75, but unfortunately not. The T-100D are still within my budget but then there is the feedback issue...
 

59slab

Junior Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Messages
21
Reaction score
0
Location
vermont
I have owned both. I currently only have the Franz equipped T100d. I would say I had more feedback issues with the Dearmonds than the Franz pickups. Distance between guitar and amp will be a factor with any hollowbody
 

txbumper57

Enlightened Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
7,577
Reaction score
58
Location
Texas
Since I am a bass player I normally do not hang out in these parts of the forum. Anyways, I'm in the market for buying an old hollowbody. Lately I have been focusing on two options - either a Starfire III (though a II will do) with dynasonics or a T-100D with Franz.

Two questions to the experts:

Are the Dearmond Dynasonics the same as the Dearmond 2k? I know Dearmond 2000 and 2k are not the same. I liked the sound of the 2k on a Dearmond M-75 I tried years ago. I remember them as sound like P90s only better.

Will a T-100D give too many feedback issues in a band setting? I absolutely love the sound of the Franz pickup. They have a lot more sparkle and sound more alive then the new "Frequency Tested" pickups, otherwise I would go for a Newark M75. If I had the money I would go for a M75, but unfortunately not. The T-100D are still within my budget but then there is the feedback issue...

Hey Mungi, The Dearmond 2000's and 2K's that were made for the modern guitars resemble the original Dynasonics but are not the same. The construction is completely different on Both of the Newer Versions from the originals. In my opinion the Originals are some of the Finest Single Coil pickups ever made. However they can run you as much as $700 for a set in good shape if you can find them. If you want to get as close to the originals as possible The Seymour Duncan Custom Shop makes their version of the originals true to the same construction and blueprint of the originals. They will run about $440 for a set new built to original output specs or your own custom specs. The next best thing to the Duncans in my Opinion are the TV Jones T-armond Pickups which run around $330 a set. Same foot print and design as the originals but the outputs are geared towards a more balanced output from the neck to bridge position and they sound a little more compressed than the originals and Duncan made counterparts.

The Franz pickups are awesome in there own right. They are a Favorite of Walter Broes and others here on the forum and I'm sure he will be along soon with more info on them for you. If you search for posts by him you will find a few videos posted here on the forum of him playing live with is Franz equipped Guilds.They have a very clear clean tone to them and can get a little rowdy if needed. The major difference between Deramond Dynasonics and the Franz pickups is the output. Original Dynasonics can run between 8K to as high as 12k-13k output on some pickups. The Duncan made versions stick around 10K-11K output for the bridge and the neck unless you specify you want them wound higher or lower. The original Franz pickups I have seen normally run between 4K and 6K on the output. Both the Franz and Dearmonds are great for clear to twang and clean to dirty but the Dearmonds by Nature can be more Nasty by Far. I have a set of the Duncan Custom shop Dynasonics in one of my Hollow Bodies and they are awesome for everything from country to blues to rock to rockabilly. I also find that the Dynasonics are less forgiving than other pickups.

As far as feedback I can say either the T100D or the Starfire will feedback a little but it is very controllable being that they are a thin as they are. Both of those guitars have been played at stage volume levels without major issues for years. The one thing to take into consideration that you did not mention is the guitars tonewoods. Most T100D's are maple and Most Starfires with original Dearmond Dynasonics are Mahogany with a few being Maple.

Best of luck in your search and you really can't go wrong with either guitar, It is purely up to personal preference and what fits you better.

Here is one of my Favorite Starfire III Dynasonic clips from youtube. The same player also has a video up for a T100D with Franz pickups so I will post that in the next post for your comparison of the two.

1961 Starfire III

 
Last edited:

txbumper57

Enlightened Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
7,577
Reaction score
58
Location
Texas
Hey Mungi, Here is the video for the T100D with Franz Pickups.

 

walrus

Reverential Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Dec 23, 2006
Messages
23,957
Reaction score
8,019
Location
Massachusetts
Those two clips are great! He's getting great sound out of both of those guitars!

walrus
 

Mungi

Junior Member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Messages
61
Reaction score
23
Thank you so much for all your replies! I actually listened to the clip with the SF several times this morning, but I had missed the clip with the T100D.

Both do sound amazing. I am leaning a tad towards the Franzes. It sounds i bit more open to my ears, as in a broader frequency range. The SF sounds a bit more focused on the higher mids, tighter sound. But both do sound absolutely amazing.

T100D with bigsby is not very comon, is it? At least not as common as SF III with bigsby?
 

Quantum Strummer

Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
2,382
Reaction score
118
Location
Michigan
To note: "DynaSonic" is just the name Gretsch gave to the DeArmond 2000s they used in various guitars during the '50s. This original 2000 model is not be confused with the 2K pickups or any later kinda/sorta recreations of the 2000. The playing field, so to speak, has been further muddied up by some writers mistakenly refering to the originals as DeArmond 200s (note the missing zero). Dave Hunter, for instance, has done this in various articles and books.

I agree with tx that the 2000 is up there with the best single coil designs ever.

And, yes, the Franz pickups have a brighter, snappier sound than the 2000s. The DeArmonds have a rounder treble response and more girth.

-Dave-
 
Last edited:

Mungi

Junior Member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Messages
61
Reaction score
23
And, yes, the Franz pickups have a brighter, snappier sound than the 2000s. The DeArmonds have a rounder treble response and more girth.

Funny, that's not what I am hearing in the two clips, but I seem to remember reading similar reviews elsewhere.

The Franz does not sound brighter in these clips I think. It seems to have a lot of bass but still sounds open and clear. The Dearmond sounds tighter. Then again, it is so difficult do describe sound. I don't even know if I use the right terms fo describe what I hear.

What is your experience with bigsby vs the harp? I am guessing the harp would give a brighter or even thinner sound than the bigsby with all the extra metal? (Please excuse my ignorant questions - as I mentioned, I play mainly bass).
 

Quantum Strummer

Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
2,382
Reaction score
118
Location
Michigan
Maybe airier is a better description than brighter re. the Franzes. The DeArmonds are bright too but it's a different kind of bright. More fundamental note, fewer high harmonics. At least to my ears.

I guess the bridge & tailpiece types could be influencing what I hear too. My long-term experience with the 2000s has been in Bigsby-equipped guitars. All the vintage Franzes I've heard via my own hands have been in harp tail instruments.

-Dave-
 
Last edited:

Mungi

Junior Member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Messages
61
Reaction score
23
"Airier" makes a lot of sense to me. Snappier too, perhaps not in the clip above but in other clips I have listened to.
 
Last edited:

dbirchett

Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
938
Reaction score
90
TXbumpler57 gave a great account. I just wanted to add a few things. The original pickups were called the DeArmond 2000 as shown in this ad:

23859729_acfx.jpg


Occasionally they may be referred to as 200 but that may be in error as well.

In 1998 Fender/Guild brought out the DeArmond line of guitars, made in Korea (by Cort if I remember correctly). They had the lookalike DeArmond 2K pickups. These were engineered by Fender and are constructed similarly to the P-90 pickups. This is a picture of the 2K:

24871468.jpg


As you note, they have a P90ish sound. The GFS NYII is a similarly constructed pickup but does not have the adjustment screws.

Gretsch, which had no relationship with Fender at the time, contacted Fender and wanted to use the 2K pickups in some upcoming guitars in the Historic series. The designers of the 2K had also been working on a similar appearing pickup that was constructed very differently to the 2K. They got the go ahead to finish this design and this is what Fender supplied to Gretsch. Typically for Fender, they named it the same as the old DeArmond pickups just to confuse everyone, They were called the DeArmond 2000 and are quite different in construction to the original 2000s or the 2Ks even though, once installed they are difficult to tell apart. Here is a picture of the newer 2000s.

2015-10-09%2017.11.34.jpg.540x540_q85_autocrop.jpg


Notice that on the 2K it is the pole pieces that are coming through the baseplate. On the 2000, it is the adjusting screws. The 2000s were primarily used on the Historic series of Gretsch and the later Electromatic guitars referred to as the 512X series, consisting of the 5124, 5125, 5126, 5127, 5128 and 5129 guitars (but not the later 5120 or 5122), They have a sound similar to the old 2000 but are considered to be much more polite. Some people have mounted one of the later 2000 pickups in the neck and the P90ish 2K in the bridge. This 2000 was used on the Guild X-160 Rockabily.

After Fender started producing the Gretsch line under the manufacturing and distribution agreement, they wanted to use a pickup more in line with the original DeArmond 2000 and so they introduced the DynaSonic. This has the same design as the original 2000 but is missing the logo on the bottom of the pickup. Here is the Fender/DeArmond DynaSonic used by Gretsch:

chrmdynasonicpu.jpg


There are two other copies of this pickup being made, one by Seymour Duncan in their custom shop and one by T.V.Jones as the T-Armond. They have their differences but are all great pickups. Duane Eddy uses the DynaSonic in his signature Gretsch guitar but used the Seymour Duncans when he had a signature model made by Gibson.

Hope all this helps but it probably made it clear as mud.
 
Last edited:

Quantum Strummer

Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
2,382
Reaction score
118
Location
Michigan
Don, no mud detected here…that's the straight dope.

The Duncans wound by MJ are IMO top notch, as close as we're likely to get to the oldies given differences in materials available then and now.

-Dave-
 

Mungi

Junior Member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Messages
61
Reaction score
23
What a wealth of information! Thank you kindly. I have listened to those clips countless times. Still cannot decide which one I prefer.

Is it very unusual to find a T100D with bigsby? The one in the clip that txbumper5 posted seems to have a non-original bigsby.
 
Last edited:

Walter Broes

Enlightened Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Messages
5,892
Reaction score
1,961
Location
Antwerp, Belgium
It's really easy to put a Bigsby on a T-100D.

Both vintage DeArmond pickups and vintage Franz pickups will squeal like a pig if you use them at medium loud stage volume with anything like overdrive pedals or high gain master volume amps. They work best with amps of the era they're from.

I've gigged Franz pickup hollowbodies for over ten years, and I have a '61 SF III with DeArmonds as well. I've had to wax-pot all my vintage Franz pickups to be able to use them at stage volume (no overdrive pedals involved). At volume, the DeArmond pickups are brighter with more of an emphasis on treble than the Franz pickups. the Franzes, while still bright, have more of a mid emphasis, bluesier sounding pickups. On a tweed Fender amp, I use the bright input with Franz pickups, the "normal" input with the Starfire.
 

dbirchett

Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
938
Reaction score
90
Mungi, I'm going to include a post from another thread by forum member Los Angeles:

Those old DeArmond pickups are fantastic. Big, Bold, Chiming sound. They are single coils and the guitar you're getting are humbuckers.

Do not confuse these pikcups with the look-alike pickups that were used in several DeArmond models in the 90's/2000s. They look the same from the top, but underneath they are nothing alike. They don't sound the same either.

But here's the cool thing, I believe the screw holes on the dearmond pickup line up with the mounting ring screws for the Guild mini humbuckers. I don't have any knowledge about why this is, but my gut tells me that this is no accident.

My main point is that if you find a pair of the old dearmond pickups, you can probably get them installed without doing any drilling or other modification.

Why I am including this is the last part about the screw holes of the DeArmond pickups lining up with the Little HB screw holes. That means that you could replace the LHB pickups with the DeArmonds you would apparently prefer, either the vintage ones (Really Expensive), the Seymour Duncans (Very Expensive) or the current Gretsch Dynasonics or TV Jones T-Armonds (Expensive). All are fantastic choices. The T-Armonds seem to be a few dollars cheaper than the Dynasonic prices on Ebay. By going with either TV or Seymour, you could have them put on white tops. Anyway, the current Starfire IIIs are really nice guitars. You now have me thinking about doing this.

Anyway, the thread that I quoted LA from is here http://letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?189434-Just-another-disaster
 

parker_knoll

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2006
Messages
1,453
Reaction score
410
Location
London
No, the dearmonds are narrower than the mini humbuckers (LB1), so while you can get two of the holes to line up you have to drill two more - however, the extra holes will not be seen when/if you replace the mini humbuckers. Also, unless you're very lucky you will probably have a bit of the cut out for the mini humbucker visible under the dearmond, but only just
 

dbirchett

Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
938
Reaction score
90
Well, I guess that would have been too easy. So you'll need a spacer of some sort. Tom TV Jones sells them or they can be easily fabricated.
 

Mungi

Junior Member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Messages
61
Reaction score
23
It's really easy to put a Bigsby on a T-100D.

Both vintage DeArmond pickups and vintage Franz pickups will squeal like a pig if you use them at medium loud stage volume with anything like overdrive pedals or high gain master volume amps. They work best with amps of the era they're from.

I've gigged Franz pickup hollowbodies for over ten years, and I have a '61 SF III with DeArmonds as well. I've had to wax-pot all my vintage Franz pickups to be able to use them at stage volume (no overdrive pedals involved). At volume, the DeArmond pickups are brighter with more of an emphasis on treble than the Franz pickups. the Franzes, while still bright, have more of a mid emphasis, bluesier sounding pickups. On a tweed Fender amp, I use the bright input with Franz pickups, the "normal" input with the Starfire.

Thanks for this. I wouldn't dream of drowning the beautiful tone of said pickups with pedals or modern amps. I have a Gibson Goldtone GA 15RV and a Fender Showman Duo Reverb. The Gibson is a bit bright as it was made for humbuckers. Hoping those will do the job.

Btw, while I am not really into Billy, I am a huge fan of Tom Waits. Your song Man Child kind of reminded me of him. Really cool stuff!

There was a beautiful Walnut Starfire III on Reverb that had me tempted. Looks like it's sold now though. It was in the UK which would be cheaper for me as I am in Sweden. Ah well, I think I will go hunting for a T100D instead.
 

parker_knoll

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2006
Messages
1,453
Reaction score
410
Location
London
Well, I guess that would have been too easy. So you'll need a spacer of some sort. Tom TV Jones sells them or they can be easily fabricated.

the spacer will raise it up, so you need to check on the height of the pickup. I fitted a Dearmond to my Duane Eddy model, replacing the bridge LB1, but a spacer would make it too high. I just tolerate a little bit of the LB1 cutout showing. You wouldn't notice unless you were peering at it closely.
 

billydlight

Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2005
Messages
384
Reaction score
5
It's really easy to put a Bigsby on a T-100D.

Both vintage DeArmond pickups and vintage Franz pickups will squeal like a pig if you use them at medium loud stage volume with anything like overdrive pedals or high gain master volume amps. They work best with amps of the era they're from.

I've gigged Franz pickup hollowbodies for over ten years, and I have a '61 SF III with DeArmonds as well. I've had to wax-pot all my vintage Franz pickups to be able to use them at stage volume (no overdrive pedals involved). At volume, the DeArmond pickups are brighter with more of an emphasis on treble than the Franz pickups. the Franzes, while still bright, have more of a mid emphasis, bluesier sounding pickups. On a tweed Fender amp, I use the bright input with Franz pickups, the "normal" input with the Starfire.

I concur
 
Top