Starfire saddles supposed to be all the same height?

Before doing any alteration to SF saddles, a person should consider this: unlike with a TOM or standard Fender bass bridge (whose individual saddles remain flat over their adjustable range of travel parallel to the string they support), moving an SF bridge saddle toward the string anchor point to LENGTHEN the string for intonation purposes also LOWERS the string (because of the slanted nature of the SF bridge base plate). Conversely, SHORTENING the string by moving the individual bridge saddle towards the nut also RAISES the string, also due to the slant of the bridge base plate. With this in mind, I'd make sure that the intonation is spot on before altering the saddles to tweak individual string height and then only if the base plate height adjusters can't get it done.

Also due to the inclined nature of the SF bridge base plate, it's much more difficult to get a visual read on the relative heights of the individual saddles when they are in place on a properly-intonated SF than it is when they are off the bass and placed in a line , side-by-side.

As always, things are different up here in Maine/

Happy Face: how come no adjusters for the overall height of your bridge base plate? I see the bridge anchor bolts and the saddle adjusters and two empty, threaded holes where the base plate adjusters should be. Just curious.

Good eye. I had to take the bass out and look at it to jog my memory.

My friend Jim K moved them to the other side of the saddles. The idea was better leverage and an issue with the thread on one original post. Holds tunings really well now. Despite the jumbled look, the M-85 pictured intonates well and the action is nice. And I am wicked picky about that.

As per your post on the angle of the bridge, good point!

It probably explains why whenever my buddy worked on my JS-II, it would come home set up nicely for a Fender. And I'd promptly screw the bridge down to as low and flat as possible. When I'm doing a good job the action on that bass is close to Ricky-like.

My bass was intonated correctly, iirc, except for the low e, which is next to impossible to intonate on a ns Starfire because they didn't make the e slider slot long enough at the factory. You would think they would have fixed that for the ns basses.

You could easily see and feel that the a and d strings much higher. The g and e dragged on the pickup. The a and d were way higher off the pup.

The diffs were easily seen while installed on the bass. Even more easily seen when off the bass.

lungimsam,

That's wild. I wonder if they blew the bridge placement on yours at the factory, as unlikely as that might seem. My NS SF-I E string intones properly without maxing the saddle travel and the bottom of the E string is a solid 1/8" off the top of the pickup.

The bridge base plate adjusters and the spacers under the string anchor end of the bridge base plate are present and in place and still you have this problem?

Yes. But we could measure inside of nut to inside of harp bridge at longest part to compare.

To set up intonation I measured inside of nut to inside of 12th fret, multiplied by two, and slid the g string saddle to that measurement (nut to inside of bridge) at the inside of the saddle where it contacts the string. It was pitch perfectly intonation there. I started the others ~ the same point and all could be slid to intonate except for the low E.

It has been set up professionally before and always the three strings are fine and the low e is out. Others here have claimed the same problem.

I had the same prob on my shortscale Gibson bass. Couldn't intonate the low e for the same reason. Then I got a hipshot bridge and problem solved. But you cannot hipshot a Starfire, I don't think.

You would think that after 50 years it would have been addressed. But I guess the runs were so few in the 60's-70's, and no internet so probably no one squawked about it to the manufacturer. So maybe they just ran the NS versions the same way.

I don't know why they didn't run the new versions without solving this problem first. You would think Fender/Guild would have noticed the prob in their prototypes and corrected the bridges.

lungimsam said:

My bass was intonated correctly, iirc, except for the low e, which is next to impossible to intonate on a ns Starfire because they didn't make the e slider slot long enough at the factory. You would think they would have fixed that for the ns basses.

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lungimsam said:

You would think that after 50 years it would have been addressed. But I guess the runs were so few in the 60's-70's, and no internet so probably no one squawked about it to the manufacturer. So maybe they just ran the NS versions the same way.

I don't know why they didn't run the new versions without solving this problem first. You would think Fender/Guild would have noticed the prob in their prototypes and corrected the bridges.

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This is the Internet where people draw conclusions from statistically insignificant sample sizes, confuse correlation with causation and mistake opinion for fact. I am guilty of all of those at some point or another. But I have that bridge on three different basses. one of which I have owned and played for almost half a century. I have never had problems with the intonation on the E string. Nor have I ever had any issues with the harp bridge and a nearby pickup mounting ring.

I do not doubt that your issues are real. But I am bothered by your repeated insistence that this is a problem that is so obvious that it should have been fixed decades ago. It may be that the bridge is functioning as designed and something about your personal preferences and setup are at the edge or outside of the design parameters. Having a similar problem with a Gibson might not mean the bridges are always at fault. You may also have gotten unlucky and gotten a bad sample.

As an aside my personal estimate is that there were circa 5000 Guild basses made with these bridges in the 1960's and 1970's. I don't know if you think that is too few to identify a problem or not. It would also be interesting to know what problems (for example) Jack Casady or Phil Lesh or Chris Hillman had with intonation when their Starfires had this bridge.

fronobulax said:

This is the Internet where people draw conclusions from statistically insignificant sample sizes, confuse correlation with causation and mistake opinion for fact.

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I love your pragmatic breakdowns of "the internets". :star:

I have had to file/drill out the slots to allow the bridge to slide forward enough to intonate the E string. On two Guild basses. (Last month I did the same on the A string on the JS-II.)

That said, I like the action to be low. Ultra low. To quote a famous limbo song, how low can you go?

Anyway, t'was just a tweak on the M-85. So as Frono says, another small sample.

We should invoke the wisdom of our Monkey God on this issue since he has owned more Guilds with harp bridges than any of us will ever even see!

Sir, please emerge and speak up!

Meanwhile, the JS-II (now with Jazz Rounds) now has magically low action with little fret buzz. On an almost flat Ricky-like neck. It sure took a while but it's there.

I quit the cover band early last year. Since then I've been part of a backing band for a female singer/song writer up here. We've recorded five songs at the Acadia Studio. I used the M-85 for three of them, my Rick for one and I used the JS-II for the last one. It sounded really nice. And, it's one of the best bass parts I've ever written.

I'm really happy with this project and enjoy the studio work. It's been a while.

But she has an older CD (her second) to release before this one is done! And she wants us to work up 14 songs before we cull. So it'll be a while.

Happy Face said:

And, it's one of the best bass parts I've ever written.

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