Starfire saddles supposed to be all the same height?

lungimsam

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My NS stock wood saddle set is made up of 8mm and 9mm tall saddles (E,G,A,D, respectively). So when I set up the action, the outside strings are always 1mm lower. I am wondering if I should try a set that are all the same height. I'd like all the strings to be the same height. The Fboard is 12" radius, so I am not sure why the diff in saddle heights, unless they are trying to mimic the fboard radius? But I would think that is minimal at 12".

Thoughts?
Are your saddles the same or different heights?
Vintage? NS? Radius?
 

fronobulax

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My knee jerk response is that the saddles are supposed to be the same height. From a logistics standpoint it is much easier to stock and use one type of saddle rather than two. But since I am not sure I would notice a difference of 1mm I'll try and check.
 

twocorgis

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My knee jerk response is that the saddles are supposed to be the same height. From a logistics standpoint it is much easier to stock and use one type of saddle rather than two. But since I am not sure I would notice a difference of 1mm I'll try and check.


According to my luthier, the saddle (on an acoustic guitar at least) should follow the radius (curvature) of the fretboard, which seems to make sense to me. I'm not sure what the radius is on a Starfire bass fretboard, but looking at Greenie, the first and fourth strings are a bit lower than the others.
 
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mavuser

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you can just file the notches in the center of the saddle for each string, that is the idea...you do not need a whole new set of saddles...and of course raise/lower the bridge accordingly
 

lungimsam

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I'm thinking of that. And if I destroy the saddles, I was planning on getting the peteybass replacement saddles anyway.
 

mavuser

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I'm thinking of that. And if I destroy the saddles, I was planning on getting the peteybass replacement saddles anyway.

i don't think you would destroy the saddles. its minimal filing. I have a set of Peteybass saddles for a Guild bass, and he tells you in the literature which file to use. I will look for that and report back (I believe it was a #2 but im not positive and need to double check). his saddles are fantastic btw. on another Guild bass, i needed to file down one saddle for the low E string. i simply used an old/no good round wound low E string as the file- it worked perfectly to be honest. it didnt need much at all though, just a few passes to file it down a little further.
 

mavuser

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btw i am with u on the strings all being essentially the same height, and the fretboard radius being a minimal thing. 100 percent. hence the above referenced filing of a low E string saddle...

i could see on an upright bass it would follow the fingerboard radius more (but really have no idea). on guitar and bass in general i prefer flat fretboards, and definitley the strings all the same height. there may be slight variation in saddle height (again i can check and report back), but with different gauge bass strings it may take different height saddles to get everything level. either way those saddles and that bridge are designed for fine tuning.
 

fronobulax

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The bridge on an upright bass is definitely curved. Given the availability of replacement bridges I would presume that either the fingerboard radius is standardized or matching the bridge to the radius is not a big deal.

I'm going to go with the saddles start out identical in height and filing the string slots brings strings to the desired height, after which you really need to make sure the correct saddle stays with the correct string. (And yes, once over the years I was sloppy, took all four strings off at once and had to pick up the saddles off the floor. Now it's one string at a time).
 

lungimsam

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UPDATE:

I just filed my stock wood saddles with a #2 file to get the action all the same, and the bass set up and sounded fantastic. I was so excited...sounded and felt better than ever!! Problems solved...Then...I noticed the low e wood saddle cracked along its width...seperated...string tension holds it in place so I'll play it at home until the brass saddles arrive...but I don't want to risk it failing while playing at church. Bummer because this was going to be my first weekend playing the Starfire at church...

I will update with how the brass saddles sound. Hopefully the low E will sound more defined on the brass saddle. All the strings sounded great on the stock wood except the Low E was a little muddy.
 

fronobulax

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UPDATE:

I just filed my stock wood saddles with a #2 file to get the action all the same, and the bass set up and sounded fantastic. I was so excited...sounded and felt better than ever!! Problems solved...Then...I noticed the low e wood saddle cracked along its width...seperated...string tension holds it in place so I'll play it at home until the brass saddles arrive...but I don't want to risk it failing while playing at church. Bummer because this was going to be my first weekend playing the Starfire at church...

I will update with how the brass saddles sound. Hopefully the low E will sound more defined on the brass saddle. All the strings sounded great on the stock wood except the Low E was a little muddy.

FWIW the original E string saddle on my '67 also split.
 
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On all my Basses ( Jazz, Lakland etc ) I always follow the pickup shape . If the pickup has adjustable pole pieces ( as on the Starfire ) I set the bridge to the curve of the fingerboard , and adjust the pole heights to a curve ( as a starting point ) .
With a Jazz pickups , non adjustable poles , I set the bridge flat , then slight "tilt" across top G to bottom E of the whole pickup.
My reason for doing this that I believe that its best "balance" on output across the strings you can get from the pickups .
By the way , I had to sand the black mounting ring down , on my used Starfire , about 1.5mm to get the clearance as the strings were almost touching .
 

lungimsam

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petetexas, you should contact Guild here http://guildguitars.com/contact-us/ to tell them you had to file the pickup ring. Same issue I had and I told them. Maybe if enough people let them know they are having this problem they will fix the problem for the next runs of the Starfire.
 
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Hi lungimsam ,
Will do , they have been very responsive in the past ( supplying schematic etc ) not like some , who dont even bother to reply .
Pete
 

fronobulax

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Well. My Newark Street and JS both have E and G saddles that appear slightly lower, although not as dramatic as the picture above. The original E saddle split on my '67 and the remaining three do not have the same heights but I could argue that two are close enough to be manufacturing variances. So until peteybass chimes in - because he probably knows more about the saddles than anyone - I think the factory condition is to have different heights. That said, it doesn't really matter as long as you are willing and able to file the slots.
 

Minnesota Flats

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Just checked my NS SF-I with a 9.5" Stew Mac radius gauge, which indicates that the saddles match the string heights to the fingerboard radius when intonation is dialed in. My saddles are still unaltered, as they came from the factory (though I did lower the whole bridge just a hair) and the bass is still well intonated.

The relative height differential of my saddles is ballpark similar to those in lungimsam's PIC above, though I haven't unstrung my bass to compare my notches with his.

I've tweaked my polepiece heights by ear to yield what sounds like the best tone and balance to me.
 
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