RIP Glenn Frey

adorshki said:

Maybe not universal but certainly a known common paradigm:
The Beatles: Pete Best
The Rolling Stones: Brian Jones
And the whole Hollywood "myth" of the ruthless actor clawing their way to the top over the careers of both friends and competitors.

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I'm not sure I agree with these examples. It's pretty well documented Best was not a very good drummer, and it also is well documented that Jones was totally out of it on drugs for the last two years of his life. So is it "ruthless" to simply want to have the best band you can?

Just seems like it's different than the Frey/Eagles situation. Don Felder was certainly not hurting them!

walrus

adorshki said:

It's how I was able to appreciate "Panama" in spite of my severe dislike of David Lee Roth.
And your favorites can too, for that matter.
My hero John Lennon with Elton John? ("Whatever Gets You Through the Night")
I was mortified.
And then there's stuff that does somehow seem to mellow with age. Sometimes just broadening your musical exposure causes one to appreciate stuff one formerly dismissed.
I've experienced all of those.
But I still can't accept "Free Bird".
And I'm not sure even Duane Allman could have rescued "Ramblin' Man"
And I infinitely prefer "Doctor My Eyes" to "Take it Easy", either by author Jackson Browne OR the Eagles.
OK that oughta spark some further uproar.
:biggrin-new:

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+1! Except for Lennon and Elton - I loved the '70's Elton, so together with Lennon (my hero, too), I loved it! I still love Elton's version of "Lucy", too!

walrus

P.S. I'm clearly abusing "Reply With Quote", I know!

wileypickett said:

Life would be insufferable if we all liked the same things.

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You know, I was going to say "Different strokes for different folks", but last year in one of my classes (college), I said that and the students started laughing. So I had to explain what it meant. Apparently, to their generation, it means something very different, that I cannot say on this board.

walrus

What a rush.....to get to the top of the music business pile, and stay there for a long time. Hard living.....but what a ride. Thanks for the songs.

walrus said:

I'm not sure I agree with these examples. It's pretty well documented Best was not a very good drummer, and it also is well documented that Jones was totally out of it on drugs for the last two years of his life. So is it "ruthless" to simply want to have the best band you can?
Just seems like it's different than the Frey/Eagles situation. Don Felder was certainly not hurting them!
walrus

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Fair enough, might not be good examples, unless one does want to equate ruthlessness with being willing to put the band before friendships.
And I'm sincerely not trying to jump on that bandwagon.
Maybe ruthless wasn't as appropriate as "driven" or "single minded" in the Beatles case.
I always remembered the story about how John would try to keep the band "hyped up":
"Where are we going?"
"To the top, Johnny!"
"Top of what?"
"To the Topper the Poppers, Johnny!"
With Jones, yep, sad but true, although I suspect the oft-mentioned "real reason" given, that Jones was going to have visa problems on a planned US tour was both true and even understandable.
Cold maybe, but "ruthless?"
You're probably right.
Was just trying to expand on Harry's point.
You do need a certain amount of cold cynical ambition to make it in the entertainment business.

walrus said:

+1! Except for Lennon and Elton - I loved the '70's Elton, so together with Lennon (my hero, too), I loved it! I still love Elton's version of "Lucy", too!

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For me Elton was one of those guys who was from the too-sweet and slick singer-songwriter era like Wiley mentioned.
I freely admit to being prejudiced against him by "Your Song" when the Woodstock album and Live at Leeds and UmmaGumma and Beck-ola and Volunteers were getting my turntable time.
10 years later I heard and grudgingly accepted "Levon" as a tune I could respect and actually liked.
Another example from that era is that song by Bread, "Make it With You"...gag me.
Years later I realized author and Bread founding member David Gates wrote "Saturday's Child", one of my favorite Monkees tunes.
Go figure.
When the Jackson 5 came out with "ABC", I swear a couple of buddies and I thought it was a chick singing the lead.
We were not exactly soul fans, and I was prejudiced against him for years, I just didn't go for that too-slick Motown thing..
Then came "Don't Stop 'til You Get Enough" from Off the Wall and I had to admit it was a great piece of pop music I really liked.
I think that's when I finally started trying to let go of "prejudices" about an artist and just trying to evaluate anything I heard on its own merits even if I didn't "like" it.
What's my favorite Eagles tune? (Even though I never got around to buying any of their albums)
"Those Shoes".
Sooooo......
anybody else got any favorite "Go figure" examples of how could the same guy or band give you stuff you loved and hated?

Edit and PS:
Only a few months ago one of those classic rock "automatic station changers" came on the radio and the next station that came up was a a soul station playing "ABC".
I left it there and liked it.
:biggrin-new:

Lennon to the other Beatles: "To the Toppermost of the Poppermost!" (A reference to the TV show Top Of The Pops.)

My cousin John, who saw The Beatles play 2–3 times pre-fame: Best was an energetic but not very disciplined drummer. Rushed the beat a lot, which was great in a club but surely not so much in a recording studio. He got better after they sacked him.

Neil Young, years ago, on his career (not a direct quote): There's been some wreckage left behind.

I've never been much of an Eagles fan, but I do think "Hotel California" is an excellent piece of songwriting. Definitely overplayed on radio…but I stopped listening to the stations that play(ed) it decades ago, so when I stumble into it now on occasion it doesn't sound so worn out. I like "Tequila Sunrise" too.

RIP, GF.

-Dave-

The summer of 1972....The best summer of my life!

I met my first girl friend on Kauai that summer. That same week I heard "Take It Easy" on someone's cheap transistor AM radio for the first time. I knew back then that I would always remember her when that song came on the radio. Indeed, every time I hear that song, I still can still see her beautiful face, the sound of her voice, the smell of her skin. Puppy love, it's the best!

Thanks for the memories Glenn......Rest In Peace.

Tommy

Nice tribute from Jackson Browne to Glen Frey, sings Take It Easy and cool story leading up to song: https://youtu.be/WlO7nAQq3fY

Though not an Orf, I believe that is what an Orf would be no? Did not Ren work with JB on that guitar....?

Westerly Wood said:

Nice tribute from Jackson Browne to Glen Frey, sings Take It Easy and cool story leading up to song: https://youtu.be/WlO7nAQq3fY

Though not an Orf, I believe that is what an Orf would be no? Did not Ren work with JB on that guitar....?

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Yup, Ren worked with Jackson and they tried out many tonewood combos to get to the one he was happy with. The Jackson Browne model is modeled after a late 30's Gibson Roy Smeck Radio Grande which would be the rosewood version and thr 30's Roy Smeck Stage Deluxe which was the Hog version. The Orpheum 12 fret slope was designed after this line of guitars. Close to the Same dimensions and Adirondack Tops, just that the Guild has Honduran Hog back and sides and the Gibson Jackson Browne model ultimately ended up with Walnut back and sides as they felt it had qualities of both the rosewood versions and the Hog versions that he liked. This is what I have gathered from reading up on them. Hard to find one of the Jackson Browne models for sale anywhere. Great sounding guitars. I almost bought one and probably should have but live and learn.

UPDATE: Just found this video from Wildwood Guitars with Ren Ferguson discussing the Jackson Browne model and the 10-20 year period they culminated it over. Great video with lots of info, Enjoy!

Quantum Strummer said:

Neil Young, years ago, on his career (not a direct quote): There's been some wreckage left behind.

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Not the least of which was quitting Buffalo Springfield on the eve of their Tonight Show appearance (the band didn't play), then quitting again before Monterrey Pop in '67. Stills brought in Crosby to fill in, which helped contribute to Crosby getting kicked out of the Byrds.

If I didn't like his music so much he'd be way up on my merde list.

[Edit: Thought of some more Neil Young evilness: Quitting Stills/Young band tour in the middle (saw them at the Spectrum in Philly - they were both ripped, it was loud, and it was glorious); quitting Buffalo Springfield Reunion Tour after 7 of an anticipated 30-date tour; quitting CSN (& Sometimes Y) a bazillion times... you get the idea.]

txbumper57 said:

Yup, Ren worked with Jackson and they tried out many tonewood combos to get to the one he was happy with. The Jackson Browne model is modeled after a late 30's Gibson Roy Smeck Radio Grande which would be the rosewood version of 30's Roy Smeck Stage Deluxe which was the Hog version. The Orpheum 12 fret slope was designed after this line of guitars. Close to the Same dimensions and Adirondack Tops, just that the Guild has Honduran Hog back and sides and the Gibson Jackson Browne model ultimately ended up with Walnut back and sides as they felt it had a closer tone to Brazilian RW, which is what the originals were made from in the 30's. This is what I have gathered from reading up on them. Hard to find one of the Jackson Browne models for sale anywhere. Great sounding guitars. I almost bought one and probably should have but live and learn.

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wow Walnut b/s? awesome. I still miss my Larrivee L03W. shame i let that one get away.

gjmalcyon said:

Not the least of which was quitting Buffalo Springfield on the eve of their Tonight Show appearance (the band didn't play), then quitting again before Monterrey Pop in '67. Stills brought in Crosby to fill in, which helped contribute to Crosby getting kicked out of the Byrds.

If I didn't like his music so much he'd be way up on my merde list.

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I grew up a huge Neal fan, and Campaignor is my all time fave song of his. That being said, when i watch a movie on him etc, he just seems to enjoy being a dick. like his is proud to be so difficult to work with and that he is not loyal at all when working with others. I think that makeup is maybe just part of being a great songwriter or artist? I don't know. I mean I can be a dickhead too, and I never made it.

Westerly Wood said:

wow Walnut b/s? awesome. I still miss my Larrivee L03W. shame i let that one get away.

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If you go back to my post Wood I updated it with a video of Ren Discussing the Jackson Browne model at Wildwood guitars. Cool Video with lots of info.

bluesypicky said:

No problem Sandy! It's still one of the best all time songs ever written.
Very easy to play too, I can't recall the number of times I played the lead guitar part note for note, and the simplicity of it only adds to the act of genius it took to put it together if you ask me....

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And the majority of the genius that became Hotel California came from neither Henley, Frey, or Walsh; it came from the guy that the first two tried mightily (and failed miserably) to screw over: Dan Felder. DF played not only the bulk of that guitar solo (he starts it alone and continues playing thru 'til the end, with Walsh laying down the second harmonized part) but also the opening, and nowadays iconic, intro lick plus the entire chord progression

The only reason why Felder was "not invited" to the recent memorial tribute was that he refused to passively accept being ****ed over by Henley and Frey when the latter two attempted to cut him out of the original, legally binding, three-way split on credits and copyright income. Suffice it to say, Henley and Frey tried to pull a fast one, Felder called 'em on it - with a lawsuit - and Felder won the case in court beyond a shadow of a doubt

Sometimes winning (not to mention being proven to be honest and honorable one, in the end) can still have unpleasant consequences, and so it was for Dan Felder

NoPicks said:

Everybody knows something - Nobody knows everything

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What you're saying about Don Felder: I am totally with you.
But his name is Don, just like Don Henley ;-)

Moritz

cutrofiano said:

What you're saying about Don Felder: I am totally with you.
But his name is Don, just like Don Henley ;-)

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I stand corrected

No excuse beyond being briefly blinded by bile. On a Much Much smaller scale, I've had a turn standing in Felder's shoes: former bandmembers in a now-defunct project have long tried to dissapear me like Trotsky - i.e. totally erase me and my contributions from the pages of history. The story resonates very strongly with me

Ego is a funny thing. Without enough of it, you would never dare get up on stage to begin with. OTOH if you are oversupplied with it, then it becomes a toxic and destructive force. IME it is always hardest to discern the difference when it involves you personally.....

I suppose that's what happened to all three of the actors in the drama: Henley, Frey, and Felder. It's a shame, really. When they were pulling together as a cohesive unit, they made some of the most moving and influential music of their times, but like a fair percentage of marriages this one seems destined (in hindsight) to have a fairly short lifespan

At least they left some good tunes behind for the rest of us to enjoy