'73 F212 "6-String"

killdeer43

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Joe, how did you handle the existing tuner holes?
I filled them with hardwood dowels and spent quite a bit of time sanding and prepping both sides of the headstock.

vlWoJ8.jpg


This is what it looked like early into that part of the project.

Joe
 

aamapes

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Joe - please tell me what you did to match the color of the neck when you re-did the back of the headstock. I have a D-35 project that needs that match (front and back with this one).

Thanks, Alan
 

killdeer43

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Joe - please tell me what you did to match the color of the neck when you re-did the back of the headstock. I have a D-35 project that needs that match (front and back with this one).
I just used the old reliable trial-and-error method to match or at least blend with the existing colors.
Time was the most important ingredient here. :peaceful:

Joe
 

Nuuska

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Hello from Finland

This is my first post here - I used to live in MN Bloomington and worked at James Berns Music 8417 Pillsbury Ave S - live back in Finland last 30 years or so.

I, too have Guild F212CSB - cutaway sunburst - I play it as 10-string - I learned the trick from Leo Kottke - I removed the octave D&G-strings to get the sound into better balance with pickup and fingerstyle. He had at the time Martin_Lundberg ( if my memory serves me right ) with extra long neck, that caused two problems : the guitar was peg-heavy and would not fit in any case - he solved both issues by cutting the peghead shorter with a hacksaw. quite practical, but my heart would bleed if I was to do that to my F212CSB.

Leo had also a very interesting BOZO 12-string with about 24 frets free of body - Peter Lang had another - those might be only ones ever made.

Back then i was young and wanted to be guitar player - in USA there as room for that, but being born and raised here I ended coming back - here that kind playing is more of curiosity - I play public maybe once a year - rest of the time I am behind mixing board or repair reel-to-reel tape recorders at home.
 
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adorshki

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How does one know where the instrument was built?
For the most part the label's good enough, if it says "Westerly" that's guaranteed to be a Westerly, as well for Corona, Tacoma, and New Hartford.
Yes 73 would be westerly. Basically though not exact science, westerlies be from 1969/70-2001ish.
Were all from '75 or some year before through at least '94 built in Westerly? Or were there multiple shops running simultaneously?
First Westerlys were actually '67 M20's, they were ramping up Westerly as they closed down Hoboken so during '68 there were 2 plants running simultaneously but all labels said "Hoboken" or "Elizabethtown NJ" (Corporate Headquarters) and there were even some "Made in USA" generic labels from around '70, until they finally used up all the old labels and had Westerly labels only, by around '71 "IIRC", but by end of '69 no more Hoboken production for sure.
Even our guru Hans Moust's "the Guild Guitar Book" isn't precise about the dates or what was built where during that period, and I suspect the records actually aren't clear or simply missing, or else when he wrote the book he didn't think the specifics were as important as the general historical overview as background for understanding why Guild made so many different types of instruments including so many special orders and "short runs" and variations on a type.
The point about very early Westerlys bearing Hoboken or "generic" labels only came up here in this forum, from Hans' input a few years back. (And I could be wrong about that "Elizabethtown" label but I saw it mentioned just recently. It stuck because I didn't remember seeing it mentioned before)
Knowing Hans' preference for accuracy in details, though, and Guild's reputation for generally lax record-keeping, I suspect the "actual dates" for the Hoboken/Westerly overlap aren't well-documented.
We know for sure Westerly closed in '01 and production moved to Fender's Corona CA facility with the first "official" production year being '02, then Fender acquired Tacoma GUitar Company in late '04 and moved Guild production to the Tacoma facility in Washington for '05-'08.
I suspect you'll primarily be looking at guitars from the last 20 years though, as the older ones need more work and are getting scarcer and asking prices are creeping up even for mediocre "need a lot of work" samples.
"Late Westerly" guitars, from '96 right after Fender took over until close, are regarded by many here as the high-water mark for Guild quality until New Hartford, but every location has its loyal fans here.
 
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Chamlin

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Interesting. My serial number falls in the '73 builds, and the label is a Made in U.S.A.

F212d_zpsercap7sp.jpg
 

Chamlin

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"Late Westerly" guitars, from '96 right after Fender took over until close, are regarded by many here as the high-water mark for Guild quality until New Hartford, but every location has its loyal fans here.
Al, great info, thanks. Are you saying that the Guilds peaked after Fender took over? So the high water mark was from '96 to what year?
 

Chamlin

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And it's a Factory Second, thus the rubber stamped "02."
Meaning...some aesthetic issue in production? Or psychological wounds? :)

You mean the 100 scratch marks just past the pick guard were there when I bought it? :)
 

adorshki

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Al, great info, thanks. Are you saying that the Guilds peaked after Fender took over?
Yes to many people's surprise.
The confusion is compounded by many internet ads giving the impression that Fender only took 'em over with start of Corona production, and there were some definite but not pervasive problems in Corona.
So the high water mark was from '96 to what year?
'96 to '01.
I trace the belief in late Westerly quality, here, at least, to a post made by our member Hideglue shortly before I joined.
He worked in Westerly during the Fender takeover, and said that Guild quality control reached a high point during that time.
After a bit of pushback from owners of pre-Fender guitars he had to take pains a little later to make clear that he didn't mean the guitars were actually better, but that Fender introduced QC inspection measures to ensure that all of 'em got the complete inspection checklist.
So they were more consistent, with a very low percentage of "duds", thus: "Westerly QC reached its high point under Fender"
My D25 for example is almost 20 years old with almost 1300 hours of playing time on it and the neck angle's still perfect, and never needed any work other than the 2 complete refrets it needed from my heavy-handed technique.
Many other members report similar durability and exceptional sound quality.
Although Fender made offers, none of the Westerly employees made the move to Corona so the learning curve was steep for people who had previously only made electric guitars and the majority of those, solid bodies, at that.
So Corona saw a high percentage of factory seconds offered on the emerging internet market, especially for finish flaws from a brand new state-of-the art spray booth that apparently also had a steep learning curve.
Coronas also seem to have the highest percentage of new owners reporting "underwhelming sound", myself included, although basic build quality seemed to be generally very good. My Corona has every bit the build quality of the Westerlys, except it's a veritable tank compared to the other 2, and took "forever" (almost ten years) to finally develop (to my Westerly-jaded ears) a Guild-worthy voice.
To be fair they did build some very very good guitars there, just not as consistently as Westerly, and maybe never really got the chance to hit their stride before moving to Tacoma.
Tacoma owners here seem about as happy as late Westerly guys, but again, not enough time, and this, along with the way Fender liquidated a lot of the inventory from those locations, gave the brand a black eye in the marketplace and with their dealers, which New Hartford was only just beginning to overcome before Fender finally threw in the towel and sold the brand in '14.
"02" on the label: yes, that's a "second", often for something as simple as a cosmetic flaw or a build flaw that was so minor it wasn't even noticeable to the average guy, and normally offered with appropriate price adjustment from list.
Your '73 with the generic label: Just my foggy memory about when those were finally phased out.
 
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Chamlin

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Great history. Re: the guitar being a second, never noticed any flaw but I'm sure they must have. Nonetheless, if it was aesthetic, it probably pales compared to slight impacts I've had on it over 40+ years. And really, I should probably wear a pick guard bib when I play.
 

adorshki

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Great history. Re: the guitar being a second, never noticed any flaw but I'm sure they must have. Nonetheless, if it was aesthetic, it probably pales compared to slight impacts I've had on it over 40+ years. And really, I should probably wear a pick guard bib when I play.
I should probably just wear a bib.
I ruin more ties when I fall asleep at my desk these days....
 

Chamlin

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About those rattling tuning pegs...I just noticed that the 3 open ones on the E, A, D side of the headstock are tight and don't rattle. The 3 open ones on the G, B, E side are all loose and rattle. Is there a way to tighten them?
 

wileypickett

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Leo had also a very interesting BOZO 12-string with about 24 frets free of body - Peter Lang had another - those might be only ones ever made.

There are one or two others I believe. Peter Lang's brother Mark had / has an incredible one. Mark recorded one album for the Symposium label in 1976, the same label that issued one of Kottke's earliest record, *Circle 'Round the Sun*.

The Mark Lang LP, *Texas John Boscoe*, is worth chasing down if you're as into the Fahey / Kottke / Lang style as I am.

Glenn
 

wileypickett

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I, too have Guild F212CSB - cutaway sunburst - I play it as 10-string - I learned the trick from Leo Kottke - I removed the octave D&G-strings to get the sound into better balance with pickup and fingerstyle.

Cool! I also play all my 12-strings as 10-strings, but I remove the unison B and E strings, and replace the octave G with one of the leftover Es. I play in open tunings and tune the low E down to B.

Glenn
 

Chamlin

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No more tuning peg buzz! I never even considered tightening the tuner screw. :stupid:
 

Chamlin

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Went to Mark's Guitars in San Diego, played a few guitars as a first take of feeling into what a 2nd guitar might be for me.

Guild GAD D-150 really projected volume, but the tone wasn't pleasing to my ear. Not quite tinny but pretty far away from warm. Mid-range dominant on the one I played.

Martin DXMAE actually felt nice to play, but sounded very boxy. First I thought, "wow, that's got some bass", then realized, the whole thing was just boomy/boxy.

Martin D-16GT (Mahogany back/sides) had a nice, relatively balanced sound, not so much full-bodied though. Felt okay.

Martin D-16RGT (Rosewood back/sides). Much nicer, full-bodied, with richer low end but still well-balanced.

They also urged me to try a Seagull S6 which was positioned as huge bang for the buck, great sound. Was really unimpressed. Didn't sound as good as the Guild GAD.

Wish they'd have had more Guilds!
 
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