'73 F212 "6-String"

Chamlin

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WELCOME TO LTG!
I'm here, more or less, and I might have missed it but do you just play it as a 6 string or did you convert to one?
Joe
Thanks, Joe. My first response to you seems to not have gotten published so I'll give it another shot.

I've played it as a 6-string. Had no idea you could even convert it to a 6-string until I read that related to what you had done on yours! In fact, I don't even really understand what you converted and what that would look like.

Counting down from the top of the head stock, I string mine in the top tuning pegs (row 1 at the top), row 3 and row 5. And they are connected to the furthest holes at the bridge. Not sure that's how I first did it, but the luthier I take it to must have straightened me out at some point.

I'm going to see him next Friday and ask him for a detailed report of the condition it's in...just so I can know. :)
 

Br1ck

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Uh, confusing me for someone else. All I've got is a 1970 D 35. It is a Westerly, even though it has a Hoboken label. Welcome to the wonderful world of Guild. Someone else will better be able to tell you when in the seventies they went with a heavier build, but all I know is I like my 1970 better than a D 40 I played from 1978. The D 40 was still priced OK at $900. The first time I played it the D 40 it had dead strings. I told the counter guy, and when I went back a week later it sounded much better.

My favorite affordable Guilds are from the 1969-1973 era, and that would include the flat back D 25s. I just like that sound. Others like the arch backs. Totally subjective.

I trust stores to label them correctly, at least the ones I visit.
 

davismanLV

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Br1ck has given you a lot of information. The only thing I'll add is that when you're looking at older or used guitars to be aware of the neck angle and how the saddle height is. Some older guitars are "neck angle compromised" and have had their saddles lowered to compensate for the shift in geometry. Then when the action gets high, if you've got no saddle left, you're looking at a neck reset which is a very expensive procedure. Checking guitars for a decent neck angle is best covered by Frank Ford, so I'll just let him explain it to you here: http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/NeckAngle/neckangle.html

Newer guitars shouldn't have this problem but.... occasionally they do. You probably already know this stuff, but.... just to be complete and informative! :encouragement:

p.s. - the only time I know of that the location of the factory isn't on the label is when they were moving from Hoboken to Westerly. I believe that transition took some time and for a while they were making guitars in BOTH places. At the end of Hoboken they made labels that just said, "Made in U.S.A." which could be used in either factory. Then once Hoboken closed and they used up all the labels, they said Westerly, R.I. At least that's how I understood that it went down. Every other factory had the location on the label, I believe.
 
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Chamlin

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Br1ck and davismanLV, thanks a lot. Yes, Br1ck, I was reading Joe's (kildeer43) signature above your post and mixed it up, sorry. And davismanLV, no, assume I know nothing! :) Seriously, I am amazed at how little I know given the fact that I've been playing guitar for 48 years. And I'm devouring all the info you guys are so generously offering.

Side story:
Around the time I bought the F212, I also bought a new '73 Gibson SG Standard. Played both guitars in clubs for years. I knew nothing about guitars when I bought these and consider myself really lucky to have been guided well by store personnel. Then in the early '80's, my girlfriend had a cherry red strat and I fell in love...with the strat. We lived together and I played the strat all the time. One day she came home and I was looking for her guitar and she said, "I sold it." "WHAT???"

For some un-nefarious reason, it never dawned on her to ask if I wanted to buy it. Still apologizes for it to this day. :) Anyway, in June of 2014, I was playing the SG and it struck me: even though the SG and I were bonded...I never really like the sound of it. The feel, yes. But the sound? Was I asleep for 40 years? It was clear I had always wanted a strat.

Called my GC Pro guy and a week later traded the SG for a new American Strat. What a difference. I love the feel and sound.

So, back to Guild guitars. What I notice, since we've been talking about my F212, is that it really does have a balanced sound. It shimmers on the top and actually has a nice bottom. I don't think it used to sound so full. Of course, it may just be that I play it in a room with wood laminate floor, windows, vaulted ceiling with magnificent reflections, but...it's nice! Even more grateful for it since we've been in conversation about it!
 

Chamlin

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WELCOME TO LTG!
I'm here, more or less, and I might have missed it but do you just play it as a 6 string or did you convert to one? I'm not home to post pics but I shall return.
Joe
Joe! Just the man I need to ask this. How the heck do you get the tuning pegs that are left idle with no strings attached to NOT buzz? Mine don't always do it but sometimes one or another will buzz at just the wrong moment.
 

killdeer43

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Joe! Just the man I need to ask this. How the heck do you get the tuning pegs that are left idle with no strings attached to NOT buzz? Mine don't always do it but sometimes one or another will buzz at just the wrong moment.
I'm not sure if you understand that I converted mine to a 6 string, totally, so there are no "idle" pegs.

wOMFaP.jpg


Here's a look at the head as it is now. This was taken prior to adding a new nut.

And here's the full-body shot.

ibSa2f.jpg


Joe
 
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Chamlin

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Holy Moly! Joe, I'd really like to understand the steps you took in doing this. Is there a prior thread where your process is detailed?

It appears you replaced the saddle, bridge, and nut at the very least.

Things like:
1. Did you replace the neck? Or just have the headstock overhauled by replacing the tuning pegs then filling in the holes where the other 6 were, and refinishing?
2. How do you measure the string spacing of 2 5/16? center of both outside strings? Measuring that way, mine measures 2 11/32 right at the saddle.
3. What do you notice is different for you in terms of sound, playability, experience before and after?
4. What did all that cost?
 

wileypickett

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It comes in at an ideal 2 5/16". Very comfortable.

cWgxWR.jpg


It's pretty close to one of a kind. :peaceful:

Joe

I always enjoy seeing pictures of Joe's reconstituted 12-string, so any post that gives him a chance to post pictures of it again is welcome!

I have one of the most bizarre 12-strings I've ever seen, built by Arturo Valdez. He was the Hollywood repair guy to the stars and did repair work for Robby Kreiger, Judy Collins, Neil Young, Joni Mitchell and many others; he worked on John Denver's Guild 12-strings.)

He also built humunguous 12-strings, for Roger Mcguinn and others. I have the first one he ever made. (McGuinn's was #3 as I recall.)

Besides being so flat-out weird looking, it has the skinniest 12-string neck I've ever seen, as thin as a 6-string electric guitar neck. For that reason I've been scared to keep it strung as a 12-string and have been playing it as a six-string.

I've been thinking of "doing a Joe" on it.

I'll post photos of it at some point.

Glenn
 

davismanLV

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Glenn, that's a great story!! Valdez's shop was on Sunset Blvd. across from the big Guitar Center. I'm sure his shop was there LONG before the GC was built. It was a fun shop to visit. Of course, at that time, I had no idea who he was. For those that would like a little history of Arturo, click HERE.

Oooops!! Chamlin already posted that one! Sorry!!
 

davismanLV

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Hey Chamlin, have you tried it using the set of holes that are closer to the saddle? I'd think the break angle would be greater which in turn would possibly drive the soundboard a bit more. Just curious is all. That's a beautiful guitar!! Thanks for the photos. If the unused tuners buzz, why not remove them?
 

Chamlin

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Hey Chamlin, have you tried it using the set of holes that are closer to the saddle? I'd think the break angle would be greater which in turn would possibly drive the soundboard a bit more. Just curious is all. That's a beautiful guitar!! Thanks for the photos. If the unused tuners buzz, why not remove them?
Thanks! I don't even remember choosing the holes. And I'm pretty sure I recall a time I took all the strings off to really clean the guitar and then wondered which holes and pegs was I had been using. And at that point I just had to choose. When I take it to the luthier next Friday I'll ask him to assess the best option.

Re: removing the tuners...I think I was afraid: that removing the tuners could somehow affect the sound; that I might still want the option of using it as a 12-string; what would I do with the holes (aesthetics); and I thought the tuners were all one piece. I think someone at some point suggested putting some kind of clay on the part that buzzes but that seemed like a whole 'nother can of worms.
 
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davismanLV

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Tom, aren't those six on a plate tuners?
Oh heck! Never thought of that! That would make it more difficult. But still they could be taken off and replaced with six individual tuners. It all depends on what the goal is. With Joe's guitar, he made the change knowing there was no going back. Well, not without a whole lot of trouble. :encouragement:
 

wileypickett

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I'd just replace the six-on-a-plank tuners with individual Grovers. This way your original tuners are around if you want to convert it back to a 12-string, or sell the guitar, but meanwhile you have decent (non-rattling) tuners for using it as a six-string, instead of those six-on-a-planks, which are generally not very good tuners anyway.
 

killdeer43

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Nice looking F212.

FWIW, I replaced the six on a plate with Grovers (Pascal inherited them, though I'm not sure what he did with them). I also chose the holes closer to the saddle for the better break angle, as Tom mentioned.

This is a fun little guitar with a great sound. I'll keep it. :peaceful:

Joe
 
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