'73 F212 "6-String"

Chamlin

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Bought my F212 new in 1973 as my sole acoustic guitar and played it as a 12-string for 10 years. I tired of the 12-string sound and didn't have the money for a 6-string, so I started playing it as a 6-string and have done so for the last 33 years.

Whenever I bring it in to get maintained repair guys and luthiers rave about its sound. One recently said, "The wood on some guitars ages better than others. This one aged a lot better than others." It does sound really good, is easy to play and sounds great when I'm recording acoustic guitar tracks (I'm primarily a strummer).

BUT...I always felt it lacked a bottom end and have waffled for many years about selling it so I can get a dreadnought 6-string. Thing is...it sounds so good and everyone tells me I wouldn't be able to get something that sounds this good for what I'd get for the F212.

So just opening this up to see what you more experienced guitarists have to say on this topic and I welcome all opinions.

--- What are your thoughts on the above?
--- Why IS the value of these guitars so relatively low compared to new ones?
--- Is it true (as I've been told) that dreadnoughts with more bottom end don't record as well or are harder to get a good recording from?
--- What kind of replacement hard case is recommended? The original one I have (no name on it btw) should probably be replaced at some point.

Thanks all! Grateful for any input.
Chamlin
 

geoguy

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Welcome to LTG, Chamlin. :cool:

Perhaps you can buy (or try) a couple of dreads before selling this F212? That might help you decide which sound you prefer.
 

davismanLV

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Hey Chamlin, welcome to LTG!! Sounds like you have a long history with your F212, and that you get good feedback about the sound. You would probably get a little more bottom end with a dread, sure. But I'm just wondering, does it have to be an "either/or" situation? Could you ad a 6-string dread and keep the old guitar as well? There are some amazing Guild 6-string dreads that don't cost a whole lot of money, if you're patient and hang out here more. It may not be feasible for you to do both, but it just bothers me for you to let go of this F212 that you've had since 1973! Plus, I'd always rather have TWO guitars, than ONE!

Just asking the questions, is all..... :encouragement:
 

bobouz

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Make sure a dread would physically fit you comfortably before leaping.
My recommendation - keep the F-212 and pick up a second guitar.

Sometimes you'll hear sounds on one instrument that you wouldn't pick up on another!
 

Westerly Wood

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Don't sell it. Mostly cause of your cool story, but also cause Joe (Kildeer) is the only other human who owns a Guild F body 6 that was a 12 :)
 

walrus

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I'm with Tom, it sounds like you have a great "history" with '73. I'd keep it if you can, but of course it's your call. On the plus side, you now have excuse to try a lot of different guitars to see if you can get the sound you are looking for!

And welcome!

walrus
 

dapmdave

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Keep it and find a 6-string that you like. LTG is full of folks who sold their old Guilds and have regretted it ever since. Including me. :ambivalence:

Guild sells nice cases on their web site, and sometimes they have a special deal going on. We found a really nice case for an F-112 recently.

Why are used Guilds not as expensive as other US-made guitars? $1000 question! Good if you are looking to buy, and a bummer of you want to sell or trade.

YMMV, of course, but I find that guitars with maple back & sides record best. (Think G-37, D-30, for example) Followed by mahogany and then rosewood. Just my opinion, of course.
 
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txbumper57

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First off Welcome to LTG Chamlin! If you have had this F212 for as long as you have and the woods have helped the tone "Blossom" over the years as you describe, I don't think there is anything on the market today that will match the tone of your F212 without having to spend 2-3 times what you would get for your Guild. Most F212's from the period yours is from sell for between $700-$1200 depending on condition from what I have seen. They are amazing guitars and nothing really sounds like a Guild. As far as the value of older Guilds, They weren't as expensive originally as some of the competition and they were sometimes made in greater numbers. Most 70's Guilds were built like tanks which in turn means there are a lot more that have survived over the years so they are not as rare as some of the other manufacturer's offerings from the same periods. That being said it makes for a wonderful used market for these Older Guilds as there is a steady supply of readily available instruments in great playing shape to choose from.

As far as your question about recording is concerned, I have recorded with many different types of Guilds and other Guitars throughout the years and the issue of a Dreadnought body shape not recording as well as other body styles sounds like Hooey to me. A dread will have more bottom end than the body style of your F212 but as far as recording is concerned there are plenty of factors such as Tone woods used, Mic placement, and what you have in your signal path that far more affect recording than body style. I have recorded with several Dreads over the years and have never had a problem with either clarity or quality of the finished product. As DavismanLV previously mentioned there are a number of Wonderful Used Guild Dread options out there and most can be had in Good to Excellent playing shape for between $500-$1200 depending on what year and tone woods you prefer. The option of keeping your F212 and buying a great sounding Dread is a very worthy option to consider.

In regards to cases for your F212, I would take measurements of the inside of your current case from Foam to Foam for all dimensions and use those to find an already made replacement case from a number of manufacturers. Guild actually sells cases for their modern line of guitars and you may be able to find one that fits your F212 at
https://shop.guildguitars.com/product-category/cases/ That is the link to their online Store and the cases they offer. Each will have measurements listed at the bottom of the page for each style of case. If you choose to go the route of the Guild shop let us know before you purchase as there is always a coupon code out there for certain discounts. You can also Check with Guardian cases as they have a good quality product for a good price. This is a link to their case dimension website. http://www.guardiancases.com/findyourcase.html Once you find a model number that fits your dimensions you can search the internet for a dealer or even see if someone has one listed on EBAY.

Best of luck to you and hope you stick around! Lot's of great folks here with lots of great info!

TX
 

70man

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I'm with the rest of the gang on this one, firstly welcome to the forum.
One of the brothers here, has down the same deal as you , converting a 12 string to six.Just search for the guy with the most by far posts and you will find him.Hahahaha , I surprised he hasn't jumped in yet to say Hi.
As for better recording options.Dreadnoughts are cool.....What about searching for a JF30 6 string,But it's not a dreadnought ,but a jumbo.they are maple back and sides ,which tends to be better for recording,brighter in tone, though a dreadnought it may well have better projection.
They are quite a few around and don't cost much at all.
Your F212 is mahogany and is voiced mid way.
East Indian rosewood dreads ,boom for the most part, some say muddy in recording sense. D55 ,Dv72,DV73 D70(costly)D50 Bluegrass(Cannons for the most part)Dv52
Maple dreads G37,G41 D46 other end of the scale known for their brightness ,I guess you would say
The Mahogany dreads, somewhere in the middle D44,D40.D45 Hank Williams Jr
All the above have Stika spruce tops.
Than there are Complete hogs, tops back and sides D15 D17.
There are bound to be others that I have missed, members will tell me and you I guess....A lot of knowledge here.
http://westerlyguildguitars.com/index.htm
Have a look round here you will get the idea.
Then watch the for sale area postings here.....
http://letstalkguild.com/ltg/forumdisplay.php?143-ebay-craigslist-gbase-offerings
TXthumper is the most prolific sales poster ,quite helpful......craigslist is a good place to find stuff,and use a search like http://www.adhuntr.com/ that will search the whole of the States quickly.
That's about me.Happy Friday you lot. It's the weekend here , loving it.
70man
 
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Cougar

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I tired of the 12-string sound and didn't have the money for a 6-string, so I started playing it as a 6-string and have done so for the last 33 years.

Haha, I was surprised the membership here didn't bat an eye at this. Obviously they have some familiarity with the concept. Apparently that just makes it a jumbo 6-string with a wide nut. That was part of the decision on my EF Masterbilts - 1.75" nut vs. the standard 1.68. Their low end is nothing to write home about, especially at drop D.

Yes, welcome to the board, Chamlin.
 

Chamlin

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Wow! Thank you all for the warm welcome and so much to consider. All of it is great input and being taken into consideration.

1. Okay, okay. I wouldn't be able to sell it. The darn thing knows what I'm going to play before I do.
2. How the heck do people buy guitars over distance? Without ever touching it? Curious about that.
3. Yeah, I have a hard time believing great guitarists wouldn't use dreadnoughts to record. Of course, and trust me on this, I'm not a great guitarist. But I greatly love playing and that counts for a lot. :)
4. Am definitely curious about Joe's (kildeer) experience around the F212 6-string thing.

I will definitely start going around playing guitars. I'm in the North San Diego area so we have some shops in the area, plus I'm going up to the Laguna Beach "Guitar Shoppe" there for F212 maintenance next week and they always have nice guitars to play, plus I'll have the F212 to compare with me so that helps. Thanks for the encouragement.

What do the Westerly and the other designations represent?

And even though I've been playing a long time, I'm fairly naive around guitar quality/builds other than "names" like Guild and others. If I'm not able to dive in to a study of this, what are the things you guys look for when you're checking out a new guitar? Obviously, how it neck feels in my hand, ease of playing, general aesthetics...but what else are you evaluating?

Thanks!
 

Br1ck

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Another vote for keeping your 212. You've had it too long not to regret selling it.

Probably my nicest sounding guitar is my Martin M 36 from 1980. Rich, lush, and just big sounding. This is the biggest rosewood guitar I'd want. The Martin rosewood dreads are IMHO, just too much of a good thing. A large rosewood guitar is great for singing with, provided there is not too much going on note wise.

That said, I've been playing my Guild D 35 the most lately, for it's wonderfully well balanced mahogany/spruce goodness. It has aged very well, but doesn't have the bottom of a D 18 if that is what you want. Hard to beat the Martin's low end. The D 35 sits in a dense mix very well and has a present but never harsh high end. If I wanted a rosewood dread, it would certainly be a D 55. They have richness with a clarity not found in most dreads.

There are countless stories of problems recording D 28s, and I have proven to myself mahogany is better in a mix for what I record, especially for rhythm parts. For acoustic lead, I use my 00 15 or OP 30 Pono.

Try to find yourself an early 70s D 35, 40, or D 55. The D 35 can be found at a very reasonable price.
 

adorshki

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Haha, I was surprised the membership here didn't bat an eye at this. Obviously they have some familiarity with the concept. Apparently that just makes it a jumbo 6-string with a wide nut. That was part of the decision on my EF Masterbilts - 1.75" nut vs. the standard 1.68.
Right, because Joe (Killdeer43) treated us to a running commentary on his conversion of his F-112 to an F112-6 a few years back, for the same reason, he liked the wider nut after playing it as a 6-er for a while.
He even had a new nut slotted to get the strings better centered on the fretboard, and filled in the extra bridge pin and machine head holes.
Surprised he didn't chime in yet but maybe he's out on a trip

Yes, welcome to the board, Chamlin.
A-yup. Also I agree with the folks that suggest you just may be able to squeeze in another for a great price with a little judicious shopping.
For some reason Guilds are a lot like Lay's potato chips and a fair amount of folks who join up here just can't seem to stop at one.
:biggrin-new:
 

Chamlin

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Hi guys, just testing this. Guessing new members entries get spam reviewed for a while, understandably. Just want you to know that I had submitted a response this morning...didn't want you thinking I just posted and took off after you put in time. :)
 

Chamlin

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WELCOME TO LTG!
I'm here, more or less, and I might have missed it but do you just play it as a 6 string or did you convert to one? I'm not home to post pics but I shall return.

Cheers,
Joe
Oh, I'm not sophisticated enough to even know it could be converted. Saw comments about how you did that but not even sure what it meant, e.g., moving? the nut, etc. Fascinated by that though.

So yes, I just string 6-strings, starting at the top tuners on the headstock and use the back pegs at the bridge. No idea if that's even the optimal way to do that.

I long wondered whether I have so conditioned my fingers with that wide expanse to a point where I'd not be able to play a "real" 6-string, but then realized...well, I do play electric guitar as well, so no worries since. :)

About to meet with someone, but I'll take a photo of it later and post.
 

Br1ck

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RE: Guilds. The basics you need to know are that they have recently been marketing guitars built in China. These are among the better built Chinese guitars and a decent value, but not the standard of the US built guitars. These have been marketed as GAD and just recently the "Westerly" series, which many think is very poor use of the Westerly name. These guitars have a 1 in front of the traditional Guild model, such as the F 130, instead of F 30.

As to US built Guilds, they were made in various places over the years. New York, Hoboken, Westerly, Tacoma, Corona, New Hartford, and just getting up and running, Oxnard.

By far, Westerly had the longest run. All the factories turned out good product. I am fond of early Westerly and New Hartford builds. I have no first hand knowledge of Corona or Tacoma. New Hartford has been closed since 2014 (?) and Oxnard just starting, so any new Guilds you run across will be left from New Hartford.

A Westerly guitar will give the most bang for the buck.

As far as buying, you pay your money and take your chances, but there are many reputable dealers offering return policies, and when tracking down a guitar you want, may be the best option. I live in a major metropolitan area, and Guild sightings in stores are few and far between.

As far as buying from individuals, can't beat the forum classifieds. If you know what you want, place a wanted to buy add there.
 

Opsimath

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Another welcome to LTG. Great place to be!

Also another vote on keeping your guitar and adding another one. Al is right, you can't stop at just one, and in my opinion, nor should you try!

Good luck on finding Guild #2!
 

Chamlin

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Thanks, all.

So Br1ck, your signature shows you have Westerly versions from '75, '76, '94. How does one know where the instrument was built? Were all from '75 or some year before through at least '94 built in Westerly? Or were there multiple shops running simultaneously?

And my '73 F212...Westerly? :)
 

Westerly Wood

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Yes 73 would be westerly. Basically though not exact science, westerlies be from 1969/70-2001ish.
 
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