Guitar lessons thread

To follow up on Opsimath's great thread about her lessons, and so as to not hijack it, can those of you who take lessons describe your goals, etc.?

I played in an informal band for a decade, which was essentially a "lesson" for each member (vocals, drums, guitar, bass, occasional horn), taught by the owner of a School of Jazz - who also taught courses at the college I teach at. We learned 4 - 5 new songs every semester, with a "show" in public at the end of each semester. Frank Sinatra, Steely Dan, classic stuff like Nat King Cole, etc. Sometimes students were in the band as well. I was playing rhythm guitar, and got to throw in a solo on most songs.

There is no question my playing improved, as well as my (still limited) understanding of theory. Learned some very cool and tricky jazz chords, and a basic understanding of scales. And in fact learned some classic jazz songs I had never really known, since I am a rock and roller from way back.

So the band has been gone for the last 2 years, although it is possible it may return. I'm thinking of taking private lessons, to continue my improvement. I'm been trying to put together a list of goals, so I'm wondering what everyone else might consider worthy goals - although clearly it's an individual thing. Also - if I do it - I am going to spend some time making sure I go to the right place and get the right teacher - I think that may the most important thing.

So far, I'm thinking I want to learn more theory, improve my soloing, and work on more complex chording. And to be honest, I'm not interested in a "recital", I'd rather visit open mics, etc. if I want to. I'm one of many LTGer's who mainly play for themselves for the enjoyment of it.

walrus

I would have to agree with you on getting the right teacher as being the most important thing.

I believe a good teacher must also be a good coach. It's just like in sports, just because someone is a great player, doesn't mean they are able to teach it. I think you would be able save a lot of time, energy and $$ if you can find the right person(s).

They would need to understand where you're at, where you want to go and be able to formulate good and sensible plan for you.

Depending on where you are, finding that person may be as hard as learning those first tough chords.

I took lessons in my late 40s. For reference, I've played guitar since I was 13.

After going through two other teachers, I found a guy my own age who didn't try to start me with Mel Bay volume I. He had me play something for him, which I did, after which he looked at me and asked, "Why are you here?"

I told him that I was frustrated because though I could play, I didn't understand music and couldn't name all the notes on the fretboard. He smiled at me and told me that he had piles of students that could explain the theory of chords and could name all the notes on the fretboards, but they couldn't play like I could. I was kind of shocked because I've always considered myself a hack, but he told me that regardless of what I though, my phrasing was supurb, and it was something that wasn't easily taught. It seems that all those decades of learning songs by ear and playing with bands had imparted a skill that is hard to teach.

He told me that he'd be happy to help me, but that I needed to understand that the goal of most students isn't to learn the things I was seeking. He told me that what I could do was make music, while most of his other students could just play guitar. That stuck with me, as I'd never seen it that way before.

He and I worked on theory and jazz stuff and it was fantastic! He loved it because he had someone to teach advanced stuff to instead of listening to whiny kids explain why they hadn't practiced Red River Valley. Some weeks I'd have to travel and couldn't work on my lesson for the week, so we'd jam in the booth for 1/2 hour, applying stuff I'd learned over the past weeks.

He forced me out of my comfort zone and made me play things I would never have played on my own. That alone was worth the price of admission.

Thanks, guys. GAD, that sounds just like me...

walrus

I've got a couple of decades of tuba lessons under my belt. I have been playing at bass for several decades. A few gigs because I could read and play (simple) parts and the occasional jam and lots of listening to riffs and trying to regurgitate them. A few years ago the stars lined up and I decided to take bass lessons with Mrs. Fro.'s guitar teacher. He is classically trained but bass was his second instrument in college. I knew from observing my mother teach piano that adult students could be difficult so we have discussed why I am there and what I hope to accomplish. So being able to lay out goals (and adjust as needed) is key. I was willing to try anything that could be played in first position but moving elsewhere on the neck was somewhat fear inducing. I thought I had some bad left and right hand habits that needed to be corrected. I was hoping for some speed improvements. We started there. At this point the goal is to be able to read and play bass parts out of a classical tradition with an eventual goal of performing as a trio. I picked up some theory that I had never known and what is interesting is the way I am effortlessly applying it while singing. I would like to do more with improvisation but there are enough free lessons out there that I have not pushed for it in the live/paid lessons. Besides at this point what I really need is to woodshed with a backing track until I stop playing the first thing that worked over and over. My playing has definitely improved although some of the improvements were in areas I didn't know anything about.

I've often thought about the difference between making music and playing music. I'm always trying to reach a point where I'm playing by feeling the structure and progression instead of trying to replicate a song the way it was written. My own personal goals are to improve my soloing skills by forcing myself into situations where I have to use pull offs, working more in keys I don't often use, and playing more songs in major keys. My comfort zone is the G minor blues so I've been playing more in E minor blues and A major jazzy blues. Presently working on God Bless The Child Whose Got His own in A. Also trying to clean up my act cause I'm wicked sloppy.

I would dearly love to play to play in a group of like minded pickers.

I am mostly self taught, play by ear, have not taken more than a handful of lessons and that was 45 years ago. I play in bands and am usually in 1 or 2 at a time and I have a rule. My rule is to never be the best musician in a band. That way I am constantly learning things...theory , dynamics, phrasings... These days I am often the best guitarist in a band as is the case in my modern country band. However the female lead singer is a high school choir teacher and the male lead singer is really good with theory and I have been learning plenty.

When I am not in a band I will search youtube for tutorials on challenging songs or solos. On Youtube I learned So What, Take 5, and Larry Carlton's famous Kid Charlemagne solo as well as all the guitar parts from Hotel California. Now I have forgotten a lot of those solos because I don't practice them, but bits of them stick with me and creep into my own improv soloing.

Anyway, youtube is a great resource for learning songs and licks.

One final thought: playing in a band will force you to practice! And as we all know playing is not necessarily practicing.

walrus said:

I'm been trying to put together a list of goals, so I'm wondering what everyone else might consider worthy goals - although clearly it's an individual thing.

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To be able to improvise and compose my own music that excites me as much as all the stuff I loved the best on the radio did, when I was a kid, to make up for all the ones that I never did find out "Who WAS that?" and so couldn't find sheet music for.
To have fun every time I play.
That others seem to like my stuff is a nice fringe bene too.
That leads me to remember that at one time I considered the ability to appeal to the broadest audience possible from toddlers to their grandparents, was a worthy goal. That wasn't an uncommon audience mix when I busked on the boardwalk.
Actually that one's still with me but now I concentrate on pursuing my muse.
I rarely practice purely for the sake of developing technique, it's probably my primary weakness, but I have fun every time I play, even when I'm "working" on a new composition.

I love to learn new songs, particularly if there is a challenge in there. The last several months I've been on a Police binge, playing some of those cool open chords Andy Summers uses, working on the long stretch in "Message in a Bottle", etc. Like was said above, I'm using YouTube to learn stuff like this, and things like Led Zeppelin songs, which have great combinations of chords and single note riffs.

But in my Police binge, I also listened to a lot of Summers' solo work which is mostly jazz oriented, and learned the basic structure of an instrumental called "World Gone Strange". I enjoyed that.

So I think I'm still improving because I'm trying songs that are "hard" for me, but I seem to have reached a point where I'm looking for something else, although I'm not sure what it is. Often I will learn a new song before really perfecting the one I just learned. I do have a "list" of songs I play over and over (i.e. a "repertoire", I guess), and those are fun because I know them well, and can improvise a little.

Al, I have fun every time I play, I love it. I just wonder if I could be more skilled, which for me would make playing even more fun, because I could (theoretically) play songs that seem out of reach now.

But I'm not sure about it, that's why I started the thread. It's interesting to hear everyone's thoughts.

walrus

walrus said:

Al, I have fun every time I play, I love it. I just wonder if I could be more skilled, which for me would make playing even more fun, because I could (theoretically) play songs that seem out of reach now.

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And I just noticed you started by specifically asking "those of us who take lessons" when I focused on "goal".
But it would probably still be about composing.
I think it's because I finally decided to accept my shortcomings and weaknesses and the likelihood that I'm about as good as I'll ever get given how much time I'm willing to give to learning new technique vs how much time I'm willing to put into bringing forth my musical ideas.
Granted some of the ideas are more sophisticated than I'm capable of playing, and THEN I want to work on developing the technique to be able to play the idea.
I'm sure you realize it's actually a symbiotic relationship because the more technique you have the more ideas you can express which further enhances composing skills.
But I agree 100% with the idea of having more fun by being able to play stuff that's currently "out of reach".
And I learned a lot of technique by trying to learn the stuff I like, like Crank said, which all melds and helps one create one's own personal "style", or the ability to play and not just "play" like GAD said.
That's part of trying to stay true to my muse.
I tell myself: "Don't worry about all that stuff you'll never be anymore".
Bottom line is that emotion's more important than technique. So if ya gotta cheat a little on technique, do it. (Not that I think you're not willing to do that for the sake of gittin' 'er dun).
Example: Joe Satriani, considered a guitar god by so many, leaves me feeling nothing for the most part, like watching somebody doing Olympic gymnastics.
Impressive but it doesn't make me wanna pick up my axe and get in the groove.
Compare that with how much (Pascal stop reading here) Carlos Santana does with little more than pentatonic scales.
Or as you mention Andy Summers, knows how to make every note count and not make too many of 'em just to fill space.
Trying to learn from guys like that'll help one understand how much more important feeling is than technique. (Again not that I think you don't already understand that)
Sure I'd love to be able to play a lot more other people's stuff than I can, but if I couldn't compose anything myself I'd be unhappy.
So I opt to focus on trying to make the most of what I already got with the time I got left, much the same as I decided to focus on music and lay graphics aside when I was in high school, because musical ideas sprung up unbidden in my mind, but graphic ideas, not so readily.
And when I feel under-accomplished I try to comfort myself with Frank Zappa's quote:
"Elmore James only knew one lick, but you had the feeling that he meant it".
So I will continue to follow my compositional muse in the same spirit.
And still secretly wish I could be as good as all my favorite heroes.
:grief:

walrus said:

So I think I'm still improving because I'm trying songs that are "hard" for me, but I seem to have reached a point where I'm looking for something else, although I'm not sure what it is.

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All this time and not just this thread, I can't recall you ever talking about working on your own stuff.
I think you need to try to find those songs of your own that are hiding underneath all those other people's songs.
If I've forgotten that you do have your own stuff, then just smack me and I'll quit cluttering up this thread.
:biggrin-new:

I've noodled around on the guitar for decades, after learning to play more folk stuff like John Denver , easy James Taylor, and some Simon and Garfinkle. Not really playing much, just occasionally playing along with CDs or YouTube. After learning more about guitars at AGF, getting into fingerstyle players, Tommy Emmanuel, and listing to some other forum folks, I decided it was time to LEARN again. So, lessons were as much to get my butt moving to play a lot more and actually LEARN how to red tabs, and music notation, and actually music theory. Add to that, SOLO stuff and melodies, not just rhythm.

I'm beginning to realize that my guitar life is pleasantly chaotic. Since I play at nursing homes a good portion of my time is devoted to selecting, learning, and practicing acoustic songs. I'm also guilty of learning new electric songs before I've mastered the ones I'm already working on. The result is a bunch of songs that I play poorly. Plus, I always have one or two original tunes in the back of my head that are in various stages of development. Last night my wife mentioned an old song that she used to teach her students when she was teaching 2nd grade. It sounded familiar so I went looking in my Christmas music books and found it. Of course then I had to pick out the tune with my less than stellar reading capabilities and get it to a presentable version.

My music life is a mess. But I'm doing pretty much what I want to do and I always enjoy it. I guess my goals in the simplest terms are to make more music, learn more music and play more music better. In order to stay sane I have to limit my genres to church songs and blues.

adorshki said:

All this time and not just this thread, I can't recall you ever talking about working on your own stuff.
I think you need to try to find those songs of your own that are hiding underneath all those other people's songs.
If I've forgotten that you do have your own stuff, then just smack me and I'll quit cluttering up this thread.
:biggrin-new:

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You are right. Like you, I know my limitations, and what I enjoy. I have never really had the urge to "compose". Once in while I may practice what (might be) an original riff, but it is not something I think about a lot. So you and I differ in that regard, but most everything else you said in your post I agree with, and even though you don't take lessons, your comments are relvant.

And +1 on your Joe Satriani opinion.

And -1 on your Santana opinion.

walrus

griehund, staying sane is an admirable goal!

And BTW, I can play some songs poorly, too. That's why I started this thread. I'd like to cut down on that if possible.

walrus

walrus said:

griehund, staying sane is an admirable goal!

And BTW, I can play some songs poorly, too. That's why I started this thread. I'd like to cut down on that if possible.

walrus

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Perhaps that is the quintessential goal: to play less poorly. Hmmmm, I could see that on a tee shirt.

griehund said:

Perhaps that is the quintessential goal: to play less poorly.

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Isn't that a famous brand of electric guitar?

adorshki said:

Isn't that a famous brand of electric guitar?

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AHA! A new tee shirt: I WANT TO PLAY LES PAULLY

One experience I found astounding is when a friend of a friend's kid came over. I knew the boys father; old, wrinkled, crabby, chain-smoker, whiskey drinker, and an extremely talented guitarist. Actually he could play mando, banjo, fiddle, as well as piano.

The kid picked up my guitar and did some superb classical fingering up and down the neck. I told him, "That's great man. I wish I could play like that". He replied, "I wish I could play like you. I can't do what you do". Amazed, "What? I'm just strumming and doing a few little runs. It's nothing". "Well", he said. "I still can't do it and my Dad call's me a "sound hole Peggy" because I can't."

Apparently his Dad was a chauvinist as well. Anyway, as much as I've claimed to want to, I've never taken the time to take lessons. I'm most likely not that much better than I was when that kid stopped by years ago. But still I (all of us) can do something enjoyable as well as enviable to a lot of folks.

My goal for taking lessons is pretty easy. I wanted to learn how to play guitar, had wanted to for many years but just never did it. My son had some interest in learning how to play, too, so I signed us both up.

Before I walked into my first lesson in September 2014, and I have said this before, I could identify a guitar 9 times out of 10. Seriously. The tenth time it was probably a bass. I knew absolutely nothing about them. I thought I should fret with my right hand and strum with my left.

I opted for lessons with a teacher rather than the internet approach because having taken ballet, I figured bad technique and bad habits would cause bad problems down the road and I wanted to learn how to do it right. Luckily I found a fantastic teacher. His degree is in education, although that is not what his day job is. He is constantly reading/researching how the mind learns and applies that to his lessons.

He never got ruffled when I wanted to go off in a direction different from his course plans and for a months I ran in all directions like a kid turned loose in a candy store for the first time sampling whatever caught my eye. I came in to my lesson trying to Travis pick Dust in the Wind, something I was clearly not ready for. I brought a 12 string to class but at the time couldn't make it sound very good, because I wasn't ready for that either. Whatever I came in trying to do he would just look over his glasses and say "okay". After running in all directions sampling this and that with no rhyme or reason, I finally settled down enough to follow his path rather than try to blaze my own. And things have started coming together.

In a few hours is the big debut ("recital") and I suppose that will mean I have reached the end of Guitar 1. I had planned to stop there, but I don't think I will because I want to understand pentatonic scales, music theory, etc. I could poke around the internet and find those things but chances are I won't take the time to do it. A structured lesson means the time is already carved out to go learn something new. And lessons are fun!

We spent a few lessons last month playing with the mom (guitar) and daughter (piano) who have their lessons after ours. Boy, playing in a group is a whole different ball game! Did we ever get it right? No, not really. Someone was usually messing up, missing a chord which usually threw everyone else off, going too fast, going too slow, or whatever. But it was a ton of fun! I hope we get to try it again some time.

I am really enjoying learning guitar and still hoping to shred before I turn 60. How well will I shred? Well, let's just say the bar isn't going to be set too awfully high.

I'm envious of everyone who has been playing guitar for years. I properly held one for the first time just over 15 months ago, and I have to say that I'm hooked.

I will add that I have learned as much from the good people here on LTG as I have in my guitar lessons, so thank you everyone for helping me along my path to becoming a Guitar Player!

Opsimath said:

My goal for taking lessons is pretty easy. I wanted to learn how to play guitar, had wanted to for many years but just never did it. My son had some interest in learning how to play, too, so I signed us both up.

Before I walked into my first lesson in September 2014, and I have said this before, I could identify a guitar 9 times out of 10. Seriously. The tenth time it was probably a bass. I knew absolutely nothing about them. I thought I should fret with my right hand and strum with my left.

I opted for lessons with a teacher rather than the internet approach because having taken ballet, I figured bad technique and bad habits would cause bad problems down the road and I wanted to learn how to do it right. Luckily I found a fantastic teacher. His degree is in education, although that is not what his day job is. He is constantly reading/researching how the mind learns and applies that to his lessons.

He never got ruffled when I wanted to go off in a direction different from his course plans and for a months I ran in all directions like a kid turned loose in a candy store for the first time sampling whatever caught my eye. I came in to my lesson trying to Travis pick Dust in the Wind, something I was clearly not ready for. I brought a 12 string to class but at the time couldn't make it sound very good, because I wasn't ready for that either. Whatever I came in trying to do he would just look over his glasses and say "okay". After running in all directions sampling this and that with no rhyme or reason, I finally settled down enough to follow his path rather than try to blaze my own. And things have started coming together.

In a few hours is the big debut ("recital") and I suppose that will mean I have reached the end of Guitar 1. I had planned to stop there, but I don't think I will because I want to understand pentatonic scales, music theory, etc. I could poke around the internet and find those things but chances are I won't take the time to do it. A structured lesson means the time is already carved out to go learn something new. And lessons are fun!

We spent a few lessons last month playing with the mom (guitar) and daughter (piano) who have their lessons after ours. Boy, playing in a group is a whole different ball game! Did we ever get it right? No, not really. Someone was usually messing up, missing a chord which usually threw everyone else off, going too fast, going too slow, or whatever. But it was a ton of fun! I hope we get to try it again some time.

I am really enjoying learning guitar and still hoping to shred before I turn 60. How well will I shred? Well, let's just say the bar isn't going to be set too awfully high.

I'm envious of everyone who has been playing guitar for years. I properly held one for the first time just over 15 months ago, and I have to say that I'm hooked.

I will add that I have learned as much from the good people here on LTG as I have in my guitar lessons, so thank you everyone for helping me along my path to becoming a Guitar Player!

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Go on youtube and search Joan Baez and listen to everything she did.