Gruhn/Walker Designed/Developed Guild Acoustics

The Guilds of Grot

Enlightened Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2006
Messages
9,547
Reaction score
4,716
Location
New Jersey Shore
Guild Total
117
20U-9644_headstock-front.jpg

As we all know, the correct orientation of the Guild TRC is to have the wider end up so it matches the shape of the "Paddle" headstock.

So, could one argue the on the "Snake Head" since the top is narrower then the bottom, that the TRC actually matches better installed up-side-down?
 

AcornHouse

Venerated Member
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
10,215
Reaction score
7,222
Location
Bidwell, OH
Guild Total
21
As we all know, the correct orientation of the Guild TRC is to have the wider end up so it matches the shape of the "Paddle" headstock.

So, could one argue the on the "Snake Head" since the top is narrower then the bottom, that the TRC actually matches better installed up-side-down?
NEVER! You can invert my Guild TRC to Gibson specs when you pry it from my cold, dead, hands!
 

SFIV1967

Venerated Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
18,442
Reaction score
8,956
Location
Bavaria / Germany
Guild Total
8
Does the GF-55 fit into this group?
Yes and no, I had excluded it because it only came out in 1990 (and was not as Al said in the 87 or 88 pricelists!). The GF-55 was the renamed GF-60 Rosewood. The GF-60R and GF-60M models were in those mentioned earlier price lists as it came out 1987. The GF-60M was the renamed F-44! And the GF-60R was the renamed F-46! Both renamed in 1987, so both originated from the Gruhn's designs. Now that also means the GF-55 as renamed GF-60R was the F-46 originally. So yes, it also originated from Gruhn's design but not under that model number, so you can't really call it a Gruhn design.
Ralf
 

tommym

Member
Joined
May 5, 2013
Messages
894
Reaction score
315
Yes and no, I had excluded it because it only came out in 1990 (and was not as Al said in the 87 or 88 pricelists!). The GF-55 was the renamed GF-60 Rosewood. The GF-60R and GF-60M models were in those mentioned earlier price lists as it came out 1987. The GF-60M was the renamed F-44! And the GF-60R was the renamed F-46! Both renamed in 1987, so both originated from the Gruhn's designs. Now that also means the GF-55 as renamed GF-60R was the F-46 originally. So yes, it also originated from Gruhn's design but not under that model number, so you can't really call it a Gruhn design.
Ralf

I think Guild also reduced the size of the fretboard inlays during that naming transition. I think????

Tommy
 

walrus

Reverential Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Dec 23, 2006
Messages
23,957
Reaction score
8,019
Location
Massachusetts
Some of the Gruhn designs (like my D64) have the diamond inlays.

walrus
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,791
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Yes and no, I had excluded it because it only came out in 1990 (and was not as Al said in the 87 or 88 pricelists!). The GF-55 was the renamed GF-60 Rosewood. The GF-60R and GF-60M models were in those mentioned earlier price lists as it came out 1987.
Apologies, my bad, confused it with the GF-50 on the '88 list which I saw when I was wondering why there was no JF65 that year, and realized as mentioned earlier that GF's were only 16" lower bout.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,791
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Don't know the whole story... but I believe Gruhn had a hand in the design of the GF models from around '85-'87 (whenever Gruhn was @ Guild, I can never keep it quite straight), plus the D-6X dreads (D-60/62/64/66) from the same period. Tho' in some respects, any Guild acoustic with a "snake-head" headstock was (in a sense) influenced by Gruhn (tho' perhaps not sonically).

Reviving this thread because I cited this Gruhn interview in another thread today:

http://www.vintageguitar.com/3275/1985-guild-nightbird-prototype/

"In early 1984, Mark Dronge, son of the Guild founder Alfred Dronge, was president of Guild.

"That year, Mark and I struck a deal to design six acoustic Guild guitars in two different body sizes. These were introduced at the 1984 summer National Association of Music Merchants (NAMM) show in Chicago."
 
Last edited:

MLBob

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
1,016
Reaction score
721
Location
SW Ohio
Interesting, Al. Earlier this year, Kim Walker's e mail to me about my Studio 24 indicated that the acoustics of those years were George's designs that he (Kim) brought to reality. I have this picture of a 1986 price list which indicated Gruhn co-designs which I have highlighted in red. Will also add a pic of the headstock on my Studio 24.

Bob

I4kcL6I.jpg


o8bzOM7.jpg
 

davismanLV

Venerated Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
19,198
Reaction score
11,822
Location
U.S.A. : Nevada : Las Vegas
Guild Total
2
Just for the sake of completeness, the "snakehead" style headstock is narrower at the top than at the bottom, like a POISONOUS snake. Not just any snake.....
 

walrus

Reverential Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Dec 23, 2006
Messages
23,957
Reaction score
8,019
Location
Massachusetts
I have a copy of that price list, too. One thing that I always found interesting about it is that (assuming I'm reading it right) it lists a D64 as being available in sunburst (SB). But I have to say, I've never seen that model, or even a picture of one, in sunburst.

walrus
 

chazmo

Super Moderator
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
25,466
Reaction score
7,129
Location
Central Massachusetts
Not sure if it was mentioned or not, Richard, but "Gruhn's Guide to Vintage Guitars" has a section on Guilds which lists all the models that George Gruhn knew about at the time he wrote it. I think (but I'm not sure) that Kim Walker stayed at Guild when Gruhn left so there may be models that George doesn't cover in the guide.

Anyway, it's another reference point.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,791
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
I think (but I'm not sure) that Kim Walker stayed at Guild when Gruhn left so there may be models that George doesn't cover in the guide.
That's how I remembered it too, and I was about to jump in and say "George confirms that in the article", but actually his wording is sort of vague about that:

'"While most prototype instruments made by major manufacturers are built in their own factory and typically utilize standardized tooling and components, Guild let us build the prototypes in my shop in Nashville. Since the inlay pattern is the same as on the acoustic Guilds of my design, we were able to get a peghead veneer and fingerboard inlays from Guild, but the rest was entirely hand-built by Kim Walker, who was then my repair shop foreman. Kim later went on to work at Guild as Quality Control and Final Inspection foreman and is today well-known as one of America’s finest independent luthiers producing both flat-top and carved-top guitars."
The phrase "Kim later went on to work at Guild.." implies he joined after George left, otherwise you'd think he would say something like "Later on Kim became....", implying he was already there and changed positions.
But it could even just be poor editing of his actual statements? Bet MLBob knows...
:friendly_wink:
 

chazmo

Super Moderator
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
25,466
Reaction score
7,129
Location
Central Massachusetts
Yeah, I don't actually know what Kim Walker's tenure was at Guild, Al. I do think he was there with George Gruhn (when Gruhn was an executive there), and I think he stayed past Gruhn's tenure.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,791
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
I have a copy of that price list, too. One thing that I always found interesting about it is that (assuming I'm reading it right) it lists a D64 as being available in sunburst (SB). But I have to say, I've never seen that model, or even a picture of one, in sunburst.

walrus

I see it the way you see it and I'm guessing that even if they didn't actually build any during regular production they would have been happy to spray one to order?
I recall seeing a "Have it your way" (Not the actual name but you get the idea) order form posted a long time ago which I though was from this period.
I think it was based on all the regular production options, not for actual "custom builds".
Just kind of a checklist for a customer to spec out exactly what he wanted.
 

MLBob

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
1,016
Reaction score
721
Location
SW Ohio
I have a copy of that price list, too. One thing that I always found interesting about it is that (assuming I'm reading it right) it lists a D64 as being available in sunburst (SB). But I have to say, I've never seen that model, or even a picture of one, in sunburst.

walrus

I have another piece of literature on the Studio 24 that reads: "Available by special order in any of Guild's custom color finishes, and as a left handed model."

I know I have seen pictures posted here on LTG of one in a burst finish; perhaps the D64 was available in a burst if requested, but few if any did so at the time they were offered?

Bob
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,791
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
I have another piece of literature on the Studio 24 that reads: "Available by special order in any of Guild's custom color finishes, and as a left handed model."

I know I have seen pictures posted here on LTG of one in a burst finish; perhaps the D64 was available in a burst if requested, but few if any did so at the time they were offered?

Bob

waitaminnit.
What about Kim Walker's tenure?
:biggrin-new:
 

MLBob

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
1,016
Reaction score
721
Location
SW Ohio
waitaminnit.
What about Kim Walker's tenure?
:biggrin-new:

Sound like he was making prototypes for Guild in '86, but out of Gruhn's Nashville shop. Looks to be '87 - '93 or '94, depending on exactly when in he left Guild to start Walker Guitars "in 1994."

From the biographical information on Kim's Walker Guitars website:


"I have been involved full time in the musical instrument making business since 1973, when I began as a banjo and dulcimer maker. I started making flattop guitars in 1974. In 1979 I moved to Nashville to work for noted dealer George Gruhn. By 1984 I was running Gruhn’s six man repair shop. In 1986 I started making prototypes for new models for the Guild Guitar Company. In 1987 I was hired by Guild to be head of their R&D and custom shop. By 1988 by was supervising production as the assistant plant manager. Working for Guild was great for me, as being involved in all phases of production of some 50 guitars a day is a great way for a maker to get his chops up! In 1994 I started Walker guitars making both flattop and archtop guitars. During all the years at Gruhn’s and at Guild I continued to maintain a personal studio to create custom instruments. I feel as if the experience gained while I was working for both George Gruhn and Guild Guitars have given me unique opportunities that I simply could not have gained elsewhere."
 
Last edited:

john_kidder

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2005
Messages
3,103
Reaction score
6
Location
Ashcroft, BC, Canada
Long time away, but a conversation about Gruhn-designed Guilds is going to bring me back.

I have five - GF60RCE, GF60M, D66, Studio 24 and a Nightbird II. Used to have an F44, wish I still did, and a lovely F46 that I sold to a friend and still get to play occasionally.

It had been my understanding from conversations with Hans, Jay Pilzer (is Jay, "The Guild Guy" still around?), and Jerre Haskew (then President of Guild) that Gruhn was hired to develop the "best production guitars in America", and that Kim Walker realized those designs first at the custom shop and then inside Guild. Think I have that right - if not I'm sure Hans will comment.
 
Top