How does the NS M-85 compare to the NS Starfire bass?

ric426 · Oct 21, 2015

Well, I seem to be hooked on Guild basses, so I'm considering adding an M-85. The main things I'm wondering about the M-85 are:
Is the sound close enough to the Starfire that it would be sort of redundant or does it have a character of it's own?
If it's different, can anyone give an (obviously subjective) description of the sound?
Do they tend to neck dive?

I welcome any comments or opinions.

fronobulax · Oct 21, 2015

Dunno. I played a 1970 M85-I and my GAS for a M85 disappeared. I could not see any reason to seek out or play the M85 when I had a '67 Starfire. The sound was similar and the ergonomics of the Starfire were familiar, if not better. Happy Face's opinion on the M85 needs to be considered although he has never warmed to Starfires and neither of us has a Newark Street M85.

Happy Face · Oct 22, 2015

Yes, I prefer the smaller profile. But the hollowbody version is deeper so you have to use proper technique with it! I have a faint recollection that Mgod, who has played 'em all, prefers the solidbody profile.

As to a comparison with Starfires, I never A-B'd them.

mellowgerman · Oct 22, 2015

I have played both Newark street single pickup basses, though not back to back. I feel like they more or less sounded pretty similar. However, both had shoddy stock strings. I imagine if I could A/B them, both wearing a nice broken in set of flats, I would probably be able to hear some differing character. I would say scoop up an m85 used, play it for a while, and if it seems redundant, sell it for what you paid. Or if you can get one through the dreaded Guitar Center, they have a no-questions asked 30day return policy. Also might be cool to have one strung with round wounds and one strung with flats

bassman10096 · Oct 22, 2015

I played the NS Starfire and M85 more or less back to back in Chicago. I'd say the M85 had a bit more boomy bass character than the SF with a bit less high end detail. It was just an impression, but I did suspect the f holes allow more of the upper range to escape on the SF. Also, though hard to quantify, another major difference is wood: mahogany (SF) vs spruce top/maple sides and back (M85 - same woods as a Hofner). The smaller, deeper body of the M85 was pretty comfortable sitting and on a strap, and the body depth didn't produce any uncomfortable ergon - effects. I'd own both in dual pickup versions given the choice.

Happy Face · Oct 22, 2015

I seem to recall that the Newark Street M-85 is not as deep as the original hollowbodies. Maybe by half an inch?

If so, that would be superb.

mavuser · Oct 22, 2015

Happy Face said:
I seem to recall that the Newark Street M-85 is not as deep as the original hollowbodies. Maybe by half an inch?

If so, that would be superb.

not exactly, i don't think so. The Newark Street M-85 should be the same dimensions as the classic "chambered" 1969-1970 M-85 (the deep/fat one)...2.75 inches.

However, there is also a New Hartford *fully hollow* GSR M-85 bass that is 3/4-inch thinner (skinnyer) in the body, than the Newark Street or classic/vintage chambered M-85. (still 1/4 inch deeper than the 1970's solid skinny M-85 though). I do own one of the 25 New Hartford GSR M-85's, and it is truly amazing. I like it better than the deeper M-85 on several levels, for my personal preferences (ergonomics, weight, resonance). I have held/played Grots 1970 deep chambered M-85, but never held a Newark Street M-85. I did play a Newark Street SF bass, and also own a couple vintage SF basses. It should be noted that both Newark Street M-85, and the New Hartford GSR M-85s, were advertised with spruce tops, but I do not think either one was actually made with a spruce top. the GSR has a mahogany top, and the Newark St probably has a maple top. here are the original specs, pre-production--

http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2014/01/19/guild-unveils-new-m-85-bass-models/

again, it appears they did not stick to that. the top of the GSR is definetly mahogany, not spruce.

To answer the original question of this thread, no, you do not need both a Newark Street Starfire bass, and a Newark Street M-85 bass. unless you were into collecting the different Newark Street models...that of course is another story, and in that case, both would be mandatoty.

most would prefer the thinner bodied, semi-hollow, Starfire bass, with the larger surface area on the body of the instrument and the f-holes.

some would prefer the deeper-bodied, chambered, M-85 bass, with a much smaller surface area on the body of the instrument, and no f-holes.

if they mass (lack of a better term) produced the GSR M-85 that I have, fully hollow, 2-inch depth, in mahogony...it might be more of a toss up, but i'd still lean heavilly towards the Starfire bass, as more than anything, they are different beasts altogether. And the SF just kinda is what it is. but everyone is different

mavuser · Oct 22, 2015

ric426 i should add you could get an Epiphone Allen Woody model (chambered) Rumblekat bass, also a short scale, or the Harmony reissue semi hollow bass, for a lot less $ than the Newark Street M-85, if you want to get another one to tinker with. I do own an Allen Woody model as well. its fun for what it is, but a lot of people don't like it. i'm into mine, it's just a little on the heavy side, which is no big deal...it's no Guild Starfire bass though. By all means if you want to check out the NS M-85 go for it. but you could get a nice used Guild JS bass from the 70s as well for possibly the same cost.

ric426 · Oct 22, 2015

I did own an Epi Allen Woody prior to getting a Newark St. Starfire and even put a Hipshot Supertone bridge on it, but I never got it to sound as good as I'd hoped. The one I had seemed to lack something that i couldn't put my finger on. I'd played a couple others and there seemed to be a fair amount of variation in their responsiveness. It was fun to play but the sound just didn't do it for me.

In any case I think I'll hold off on an M-85. I'm not a collector and can't afford to have two basses with more similarities than differences. If there were affordable two pickup M-85's in a color I liked better it might be a different story, but I guess my M-85 G.A.S. has passed.

fronobulax · Oct 23, 2015

ric426 said:
I'm not a collector and can't afford to have two basses with more similarities than differences

Oh No!!! With a '67 SF I and a NS SF I this means I must be a collector. What's next? A '65 or '66 sunburst SF I? A SF II of any era? A pre-'71 M85 I or II?

(Actually my justification, which I actually believe, is that I will take the NS SF to places where there is a risk of theft or damage because if either occurs replacing the NS will be much easier).

Happy Face · Oct 23, 2015

mavuser said:
not exactly, i don't think so. The Newark Street M-85 should be the same dimensions as the classic "chambered" 1969-1970 M-85 (the deep/fat one)...2.75 inches.

However, there is also a New Hartford *fully hollow* GSR M-85 bass that is 3/4-inch thinner (skinnyer) in the body, than the Newark Street or classic/vintage chambered M-85. (still 1/4 inch deeper than the 1970's solid skinny M-85 though). I do own one of the 25 New Hartford GSR M-85's, and it is truly amazing. I like it better than the deeper M-85 on several levels, for my personal preferences (ergonomics, weight, resonance). I have held/played Grots 1970 deep chambered M-85, but never held a Newark Street M-85. I did play a Newark Street SF bass, and also own a couple vintage SF basses. It should be noted that both Newark Street M-85, and the New Hartford GSR M-85s, were advertised with spruce tops, but I do not think either one was actually made with a spruce top. the GSR has a mahogany top, and the Newark St probably has a maple top. here are the original specs, pre-production--

http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2014/01/19/guild-unveils-new-m-85-bass-models/

again, it appears they did not stick to that. the top of the GSR is definetly mahogany, not spruce.

To answer the original question of this thread, no, you do not need both a Newark Street Starfire bass, and a Newark Street M-85 bass. unless you were into collecting the different Newark Street models...that of course is another story, and in that case, both would be mandatoty.

most would prefer the thinner bodied, semi-hollow, Starfire bass, with the larger surface area on the body of the instrument and the f-holes.

some would prefer the deeper-bodied, chambered, M-85 bass, with a much smaller surface area on the body of the instrument, and no f-holes.

if they mass (lack of a better term) produced the GSR M-85 that I have, fully hollow, 2-inch depth, in mahogony...it might be more of a toss up, but i'd still lean heavilly towards the Starfire bass, as more than anything, they are different beasts altogether. And the SF just kinda is what it is. but everyone is different

Thanks! That's the model I am remembering. Sounds ideal and looks really sharp.

Happy Face · Oct 23, 2015

fronobulax said:
Oh No!!! With a '67 SF I and a NS SF I this means I must be a collector. What's next? A '65 or '66 sunburst SF I? A SF II of any era? A pre-'71 M85 I or II?

(Actually my justification, which I actually believe, is that I will take the NS SF to places where there is a risk of theft or damage because if either occurs replacing the NS will be much easier).

Watch out GoG, there's a new collector in town ....

mavuser · Oct 23, 2015

mavuser said:
It should be noted that both Newark Street M-85, and the New Hartford GSR M-85s, were advertised with spruce tops, but I do not think either one was actually made with a spruce top. the GSR has a mahogany top, and the Newark St probably has a maple top. here are the original specs, pre-production--

http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2014/01/19/guild-unveils-new-m-85-bass-models/

again, it appears they did not stick to that. the top of the GSR is definetly mahogany, not spruce.

just to add to this for a moment, i had a fun little jam sesh with the Allen Woody bass last night, and in looking at it, it appears the top is laminated spruce on mine. the current specs say its maple. the top of mine is definetly not maple, it sure looks like spruce (but mine is older). never realized this

How does the NS M-85 compare to the NS Starfire bass?

ric426

Junior Member

fronobulax

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods

Happy Face

Justified Ancient of MuMu

mellowgerman

Senior Member

bassman10096

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Happy Face

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mavuser

Enlightened Member

mavuser

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ric426

Junior Member

fronobulax

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods

Happy Face

Justified Ancient of MuMu

Happy Face

Justified Ancient of MuMu

mavuser

Enlightened Member