Has anyone converted their deep switch to a phase switch?

nmiller said:

The phase is due purely to the way in which the pickups are wired together; turning them around physically has no effect. But yes, the sound is only altered in the middle position.

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thanks...i thought maybe in order to wire it that way, one needed to be flipped 180 degrees. thanks again for all the info.

I think my SF II bass is in phase. my hypotheseis is the coil/choke/transformer thing has been bypassed but the caps in the suck switch circut are all still there. therefore, with the suck switch engaged, it still does "something" in the middle position, and also in neck; but not the bridge. its more like a deep-hard switch from the 70s, than the suck switch of the 60s. I no longer think it's a phase switch conversion. I do believe my JS II Bass is out-of phase, however.

nmiller said:

I Past experience says that I will never use the deep switch

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Does this mean that you don't like the deeper sounding setting of this switch? if so, note that this is closer to the un-modded sound of the pickup and if you prefer the "hard" setting you would need to keep a cap in the circuit in series with the neck pickup when changing over to a phase switch arrangement. See the following thread for info/analysis/experiments on the deep/hard switch: http://letstalkguild.com/ltg/showth...t-Deep-Hard-Switch-quot&highlight=deep+switch

Re phase switches, from my experience with the S100 guitars, the greatest variety of tones come when backing off either volume knob (when 2 are present), with both pickups on of course. Pretty limited otherwise IMO. I assume the M-85 has 2 volume knobs?

Zelja said:

Re phase switches, from my experience with the S100 guitars, the greatest variety of tones come when backing off either volume knob (when 2 are present), with both pickups on of course. Pretty limited otherwise IMO. I assume the M-85 has 2 volume knobs?

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If this question is for me, yes the M-85 has 2 vol knobs. But, the mini switch works in all 3 positions, not just the middle. So it is not a phase switch, but rather closer to the deep hard switch of the 70s. However, on the M-85, there is no drop in volume with the mini switch, just a change in tone (more treble especially on the higher strings). Thanks very much!

Zelja said:

Does this mean that you don't like the deeper sounding setting of this switch? if so, note that this is closer to the un-modded sound of the pickup and if you prefer the "hard" setting you would need to keep a cap in the circuit in series with the neck pickup when changing over to a phase switch arrangement. See the following thread for info/analysis/experiments on the deep/hard switch: http://letstalkguild.com/ltg/showth...t-Deep-Hard-Switch-quot&highlight=deep+switch

Re phase switches, from my experience with the S100 guitars, the greatest variety of tones come when backing off either volume knob (when 2 are present), with both pickups on of course. Pretty limited otherwise IMO. I assume the M-85 has 2 volume knobs?

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I ran across that diagram when looking for a similar example, so I knew that either the cap or resistor would have to stay in the circuit. The M-85 has separate volume controls for each pickup plus a master volume.

nmiller said:

The M-85 has separate volume controls for each pickup plus a master volume.

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No master on mine.

My friend finished rewiring the pickups on mine into phase, but I cannot pick it up until later.

mavuser said:

not to say the Bisonic on its own has any issues or hums at all- this will vary room to room and depends on outlets/wiring/grounding/dimmers/switches etc...

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I have been known to practice in the dark because my practice room has a light on a dimmer and both Starfires are sensitive to it.

Happy Face said:

No master on mine.

My friend finished rewiring the pickups on mine into phase, but I cannot pick it up until later.

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Apparently it was a bear of a project, thanks to the lack of a back plate or f hole. But my friend got it done.

I had no clue how complicated it would be. I guess he had to take out and reverse the magnets and change some wiring to maintain the grounding.

I fooled with it a bit tonight. In phase pickups are definitely an upgrade. I now have three positions to work with and it's easier to change tones on the fly.

And I didn't notice a major increase in noise. Famous last words...?

Happy Face said:

Apparently it was a bear of a project, thanks to the lack of a back plate or f hole. But my friend got it done.

I had no clue how complicated it would be. I guess he had to take out and reverse the magnets and change some wiring to maintain the grounding.

I fooled with it a bit tonight. In phase pickups are definitely an upgrade. I now have three positions to work with and it's easier to change tones on the fly.

And I didn't notice a major increase in noise. Famous last words...?

Click to expand...

I sat in as a substitute Substitute last night. An outdoor show so you could actually hear your sound through your stage amp, (rather than monitors).

I brought the above-mentioned M-85 and a Fender. The Fender never left the stand. The M-85 with the pickups in phase sounded righteous. I mainly just swapped between the neck pup and a middle blend, though I did flick it down all the way once by accident and thought it sounded OK.'

The point is, with the mod you have a more useful bass. No big volume change between the three positions. Nicely done, Jim!

PS - I used it at practice the other night. I was parked right under a florescent light. At some angles there was a mild hum with one or both pups active. Nothing major though and it would fade if I changed positin slightly. I guess the real test will be a neon sign.

So... I did it. More accurately, a tech did it because I'm not handy with a soldering iron. Turns out that wiring diagram from the JS-II was not correct for my M-85; the switch was a single-pole that switched a cap in and out of the circuit (no resistor), and it needed to be replaced with a double-pole switch to make the phase change. (I kept all the original parts for posterity).

The end result is marginally more usable than the stock wiring. It eliminated the "deep" bass sound, and the out-of-phase sound is slightly different than the in-phase sound. It's not a huge difference, but there's a bit less treble and upper mids when out of phase. There's barely any volume loss, which is nice, but it's more of a subtle difference in EQ than the funky quack of my old JS-II.

I'm confused by this since my M-85 doesn't have that switch. But Guilds are not consistent.

(But what's consistent is my goal of singing "Take It As It Comes" (Doors) soon. As it has been for 20 years or so.)