"Different" DeArmonds from the days of yore....

zizala

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I stuck this photo in Walter's Cordoba topic and realized it would be better to start a new thread....



I'm no expert....just some thoughts, observations and experience....

These resemble the DeArmond 2000 or what Gretsch called the "Dynasonic" but without the more complicated apparatus for raising and lowering the magnet rod pole pieces. In fact the magnets are the screws, not separate parts. Structurally they're just like the model 210 sound hole pickup built into a 2000 frame, so I've taken to calling them 210's.

From what I can tell from looking at old 50's guitars with DeArmonds these did not necessarily predate the 2000 model.....in fact they seem to show up most often on some oddball late 50's Multivox Premier guitars, some circa 1960 early Guild Starfires as well, and show up on a few other Guilds from that time frame.

More info here:

http://www.musicpickups.com/Premier.html

I have a 1960 Starfire II with these and love the sound these produce.
My '61 Starfire II was re-equipped with original late 50's DeArmond Gretsch Dynasonics in the more conventional 2000 style with the black face bobbins. I'm not sure if the more commonly seen white faced Guild versions of the 2000 are any different. Anyway these are famously great sounding pickups

Its hard to describe the sound difference between the 210's and the 2000's.
Both have a very powerful and punchy sound but while the 2000 has lots of "chime" in the trebles and a great bottom end.....I detect a sense of "scooped" mids. Sorry for the chiches but I don't quite know how else to describe this! BS common parlance but I'll use it...
The 210 is more tonally balanced to my ears....a quicker more articulate P-90 or even a very powerful Franz.
No mud in the middle.....still does the DeArmond thing with the unwound strings.

All that blather being said....the '60 Starfire has a maple body....the '61 is mahogany. With that in mind this comparison could be completely useless!
But I think not.....I'll put this extra set in the '61 and find out.

Anyway.....I like the 210's a lot.
I'll keep'em.....

z
 
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Quantum Strummer

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Wonder what the composition of those magnets/polepieces is, given how they've been machined? Something harder than alnico, I'd guess. Many years ago I had a set of Fender's "wide range" humbuckers that had been rewound with thinner wire and also rewired for parallel hum-cancelling. Their magnets/polepieces were made of "cunife" (copper, nickel, iron), which can be machined fairly easily. In retrospect I shoulda pulled 'em out of the mediocre guitar they were mounted in as they had a nice sweet sound.

(Aside: Fender used what could be called "alnife" for many of their early pickups. This particular formulation contains little or no cobalt (co), which was at the time in short supply.)

-Dave-
 

Guildadelphia

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According to an article on Guild Starfire guitars in the last issue of "Vintage Guitar" those pu's are not DeArmonds but were made by Schaller in Germany and later replaced by the more familiar DeArmonds in Guild guitars. Whether this is true or not I'm sure could be confirmed by Hans or Walter.
 

Default

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Didn't Ralf weigh in on this a while back? I seem to remember pics of German guitars that had the same pups.
 

bobouz

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Those are the same pickups that are on the personal guitar of Merle Travis
What a treat to see one of my very favorite players with a beautiful Guild.

Merle certainly owned some incredibly fine golden-era guitars.
 

hansmoust

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From what I can tell from looking at old 50's guitars with DeArmonds these did not necessarily predate the 2000 model.....in fact they seem to show up most often on some oddball late 50's Multivox Premier guitars, some circa 1960 early Guild Starfires as well, and show up on a few other Guilds from that time frame.

According to an article on Guild Starfire guitars in the last issue of "Vintage Guitar" those pu's are not DeArmonds but were made by Schaller in Germany and later replaced by the more familiar DeArmonds in Guild guitars.

Well that only proves that because it's printed somewhere, it's not necessarily true!

These pickups were made by DeArmond. The following Patent Drawing also will give you the relevant dating info:

http://www.guitarchives.nl/fotos/DeArmondPatent_1.jpg

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

zizala

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I was hoping you'd show up Hans.

Nothing like some historical documentation to confirm my musings. Thanks!
 

Guildadelphia

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That was a pretty big mistake in that "Vintage Guitar" article on vintage singlecut Starfires. Hopefully they will do better in next month's installment about semi-hollow doublecut Starfires.
 

SFIV1967

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zizala

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Well thanks for the links......looks like these interesting DeArmonds have already had some good discussion.
Very cool and informative to go over whats already been posted in the past.
 

trimbo

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I have a Standel 420s from 68, which has the same pick ups. The guitar itself shares some similarities with my 67 starfire.
 

trimbo

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It sounds good but the magnets are very strong and have quite a bit of string pull.
 
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txbumper57

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I was searching through Ebay tonight and came across a set of the "Beveled" Dearmonds on a vintage 50's Premier Arch top Guitar. They are asking $899 obo for the whole guitar, Pickups and all. I figured someone could buy it, Put a set of GFS NYII dearmond knockoffs on it for $70 for the set and resell it for what they paid or close to it. They would be getting a set of the Beveled Dearmonds for virtually free depending on price bought and sold. Here is the link if anyone is interested.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Pre...834?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4199f9a07a
 
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