Introducing the Guild Westerly Collection

fronobulax · May 19, 2015

JHJ said:
If sales were good, then FMIC would not have sold them off.

To veer, sources that I believe, and I believe had access to the information they reported, claimed that Guild production at New Hartford was profitable, the operations at the entire facility across all brand lines was less profitable, the decision to close the factory was based upon the venture capitalist's requirement for a higher return on capital than the operating factory was generating and the decision to sell the brands was made because doing so was a better fit with the venture capitalist's vision of a "lean and mean and focused" FMIC.

So in a world of "what if" I think the ownership of FMIC was a much greater factor in the decision to close the plant and sell the brands and increased sales probably would not have changed things. IMO. YMMV.

fronobulax · May 19, 2015

Geotrio said:
one of the key aspects will be to insure that there is a clear distinction between USA and off shore.

Superficially this seems to suggest the Martin/Sigma or Guild/Madiera strategy which didn't seem to work so well 40 years ago. Are you suggesting something different or suggesting that it might work this time around or what?

Is Fender/Squire working?

Geotrio · May 19, 2015

fronobulax said:
Superficially this seems to suggest the Martin/Sigma or Guild/Madiera strategy which didn't seem to work so well 40 years ago. Are you suggesting something different or suggesting that it might work this time around or what?

Is Fender/Squire working?

Point taken frono, those particular strategies failed miserably. What I have seen DW do with their lineup is create distinctive logos, rather than dream up a new brand name. For example, one logo is a solid color, the other is an outline of the logo. Subtle but effective. Just something to differentiate without reinventing the wheel. They believe in all of their products no matter the country of orgin. Since DW is in charge of the entire Ovation operation now, I'd expect them to do something similar; they have stated they believe it is an important distinction to make. And I agree.

Metalman · May 19, 2015

It will flop, just like the "GAD" series did. It cheapens the Westerly tradition. I agree with everybody here who have weighed in on the subject. There are only one "Westerly Guilds" and that is the series that were made, rather, hand made in Westerly. And that had it's chance in Conn. up until recently. Fortunately, those old instruments (I meant the real old ones from the '60s and '70s) are still available if you know where to look and what you're looking for.

jcwu · May 19, 2015

fronobulax said:
Is Fender/Squire working?

As a Fender snob, I have to say - some of the Squier offerings have been FANTASTIC.

Watasha · May 19, 2015

Metalman said:
It will flop, just like the "GAD" series did. It cheapens the Westerly tradition. I agree with everybody here who have weighed in on the subject. There are only one "Westerly Guilds" and that is the series that were made, rather, hand made in Westerly. And that had it's chance in Conn. up until recently. Fortunately, those old instruments (I meant the real old ones from the '60s and '70s) are still available if you know where to look and what you're looking for.

What evidence is there that the GAD series "flopped"?

Watasha · May 19, 2015

Geotrio said:
Point taken frono, those particular strategies failed miserably. What I have seen DW do with their lineup is create distinctive logos, rather than dream up a new brand name. For example, one logo is a solid color, the other is an outline of the logo. Subtle but effective. Just something to differentiate without reinventing the wheel. They believe in all of their products no matter the country of orgin. Since DW is in charge of the entire Ovation operation now, I'd expect them to do something similar; they have stated they believe it is an important distinction to make. And I agree.

DW does also make the lower cost Pacific Drum line (PDP) so they did technically dream up a new brand name.

davismanLV · May 19, 2015

Watasha said:
What evidence is there that the GAD series "flopped"?

That's what I was wondering.

griehund · May 19, 2015

jcwu said:
Where I work, we have old-timer clients who will not let go of the past, and will not accept any kind of change. No thought whatsoever to living in the present, to adapting to changing environments, to looking to the future. No thought of what works and what doesn't - just the mantra, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Well, I'm sorry, but it's broke, and we need to fix it. Which brings me to this:

Old sentiment is just that - old sentiment. I am a strong Westerly Guild proponent - but Westerly Guilds are a thing of the past, and they will no longer generate any revenue for Guild under Cordoba's ownership. Cordoba has to keep the brand alive, and the only way that will happen is if Guild makes money for Cordoba. We bashed Guilds, we (jokingly) compare them to firewood, but if there are plenty of people who bought various GAD models, then likely there will be customers for the Westerly Collection. And if that keeps the Guild brand alive and well, then so be it.

Anyone who doesn't already know Guild's past and history, to whom Guild's past and history would make any difference, will end up learning about it and distinguishing between Westerly Guilds and the Westerly Collection. All the rest of them probably wouldn't and couldn't give a rats a$$ about Thisterly or Thatsterly.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" only works in a vacuum. Because while you ain't fixin it 10 other companies are making it work better cheaper.

Geotrio · May 19, 2015

Watasha said:
DW does also make the lower cost Pacific Drum line (PDP) so they did technically dream up a new brand name.

That is true. But the DW logo is also still on the badge...the logo head is indeed PDP. They have a new maple Concepts series that is intriguing and only $899 bucks for a very nice drumset. If I didn't already have too many drums...anyway you have the connection to DW while still making it clear they are different.

Getting back on topic it seems we have some disagreement on whether using the revered 'Westerly' name to market an import is a good idea or not. I can't say for sure but IMHO they need to keep a distinction between the lines. Not for Guild addicts but rather John Q Public. I'll let the pros do their thing...and stop babbling. Looking forward to USA Guilds.

jcwu · May 19, 2015

SFIV1967 said:
There are plenty of people who like and bought various GAD models

Watasha said:
What evidence is there that the GAD series "flopped"?

Seems the evidence (maybe circumstantial at best, but I haven't heard otherwise) seems to indicate the GAD line didn't flop. But again, there are no hard numbers presented anywhere to present the case either way.

Westerly Wood · May 19, 2015

jcwu said:
Seems the evidence (maybe circumstantial at best, but I haven't heard otherwise) seems to indicate the GAD line didn't flop. But again, there are no hard numbers presented anywhere to present the case either way.

nah, no flop. the name just sucked.

adorshki · May 19, 2015

griehund said:
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" only works in a vacuum. Because while you ain't fixin it 10 other companies are making it work better cheaper.

MY gripe is that in my experience over the last 5 years, the cheaper isn't cheaper OR as good as what it replaces.
With clothing in particular and specifically, and sundry other consumer goods I'm having issues with in either short life spans and/or functionality.
How about a simple plug-in alarm clock whose alarm fails after 2 years?
GO to buy a replacement and now the face is opaqued from the rear so that there's just a little dot of light on the face and you can't read the clock in the dark anymore. I mean, WTF why even bother with the bulb, then?
I challenge any of you to find an old fashioned analog face plug in OR wind-up alarm clock made in America anymore.
(I also keep a wind-up back up and those only last 2 years too.)
And that in a nutshell is the real problem, we don't even have a choice to buy something better if we want to, anymore.
And you better buy your small appliance heater fan AND its back-up when they go on sale in December 'cause if it goes out in March you're SOL until next December.
And don't bother looking for plain old fans in winter.
Somehow the disciples of planned obsolescence have raised that once-arcane philosophy to a world conquering religion.
Why should guitars be exempt from this plague of built-in self-destruct timers??
It torques me.
SEVERELY.
:mad-new:

davismanLV · May 19, 2015

Al, while that's a nice RANT..... and I do LOVE a good rant.... I don't think it really applies to the Chinese built guitars from Guild. As far as I know they're all hanging in there realy well and I never expected them to tell me when to get up or what time it is so..... I'm not sure it's relevant. It's GOOD, but not relevant in this case.

Also, I made my opinion crystal clear in the original post about calling Chinese built Guilds "The Westerly Collection". But now that I've stated my opinion and it's on the record..... I'm done. Guild/Cordoba is gonna do what they please and .... I'll jut stumble through the best can. I doubt I'll be buying one (never say never) so, who cares? Call them what you want. I'm done. :saturn:

Neal · May 19, 2015

If the numbers of used GAD's on EBay and Reverb are any indication, FMIC sold a lot of them.

And given the low payscale and paltry worker benefits paid in China, the GAD's undoubtedly were revenue producers.

They are, however, solidly built instruments that sound good and play well at their price point, an accomplishment that simply is no longer possible in the US in a competitive world marketplace.

Some enterprising guitar company is probably looking right now for workforces even cheaper than China, say Central Africa or the Middle East, where folks would love to have a decent job.

Neal

adorshki · May 19, 2015

davismanLV said:
so..... I'm not sure it's relevant. It's GOOD, but not relevant in this case.

Relevance? Who said anything about relevance?
Just wait'll you need to replace the batteries in your clock or phone every week.
Then wait'll they obsolete the batteries while the phone is still perfectly good..
THAT'LL larn ya.

davismanLV said:
I doubt I'll be buying one (never say never) so, who cares? Call them what you want. I'm done. :saturn:

I care about you deeply as a human being Tom and I'd hate to see you victimized by venal hawkers of cheap consumer goods no matter where they're made.
How's yer scooter holdin' up, by the way?

davismanLV · May 19, 2015

HAAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAA!!! I'm LMAO!! Al, I thought you knew I'd progressed to somewhat normal ambulation!! I have!! I'm riding my bicycle, and walking with hardly a gimp. I still get tired after walking long distances and I also realized today that my right calf muscle is weak. I can't lift my heel off the ground!! I hadn't even noticed until this afternoon. I raised up on my left heel, then I tried it on my right and ..... nothing moved. My right heel remained SLAMMED down on that ground. Didn't budge an INCH!! So apparently, I've got some work to do. I figured once the pool heater is on and I have tepid water to support my weight, I can do heel lifts? I'm gonna try anyway...... :stupid:

Oh and p.s. - I bought a cheap-a$$ digital alarm when I first moved to Vegas 10 years ago. It's difficult to read at night, even when you push the "light up" button, but it keeps good time, wakes me up when I set it, and finally two years ago I changed the battery, not because it needed it but because it just seemed TO ME like it should need one after 8 years. I have no idea about this thing but.... lordy it's holding up. Of course, now that I've said that in print........

adorshki · May 19, 2015

davismanLV said:
I also realized today that my right calf muscle is weak. I can't lift my heel off the ground!! I hadn't even noticed until this afternoon.

Wouldn't that be your hamstring group? Has to contract to bend the leg at the knee?
Or am I just not quite getting it?
Is it possible it became atrophied from constant use of the scooter?
Don't say I didn't try to warn you.
Better late than ever, er, never..

davismanLV said:
Oh and p.s. - I bought a cheap-a$$ digital alarm when I first moved to Vegas 10 years ago.

Right. 10 years ago the global economic takeover conspiracy's first target was garment industries.
They didn't have the ability to fine-tune the lifespans of cheap clocks, watches and cell phones until Apple started renting renting production space from 'em.
When they finally figured out the real money's in batteries, there was no stoppin' the avalanche.
Gotta keep up demand.
Now the big hurdle is figurin' out how to plan the lifespan of non-electronic items.
Like bicycles.
And guitars.
I think it was Alfred E Newman who said: "Why should I sell a man a car that can last a lifetime when I could sell him 3 or even 4 or 5?"

fronobulax · May 20, 2015

Westerly Wood said:
nah, no flop. the name just sucked.

Which is interesting given that the acronym was for Guild Acoustic Design and at the time it was introduced it was supposed to give the buyer a sense of connection to The Guild Guitar Company but make it clear that those instruments were not the corporate flagship. But if the name and strategy worked well then we would not have all the extra ones added to model numbers. A part of me longs for simpler times, such was when it was believed Volvo model numbers of the form XYZ were consistent and X designated a trim line or body style, Y was a 4 or 6 depending on the number of cylinders the engine had and Z was 2, 4 or 5 designating the number of doors.

fronobulax · May 20, 2015

Neal said:
If the numbers of used GAD's on EBay and Reverb are any indication, FMIC sold a lot of them.

And given the low payscale and paltry worker benefits paid in China, the GAD's undoubtedly were revenue producers.

They are, however, solidly built instruments that sound good and play well at their price point, an accomplishment that simply is no longer possible in the US in a competitive world marketplace.

Some enterprising guitar company is probably looking right now for workforces even cheaper than China, say Central Africa or the Middle East, where folks would love to have a decent job.

Neal

Guild commented on the payscale issue at one of the LMGs and they expected wages in China to rise to the point that making instruments in China was no longer the cheapest alternative. They expressed a desire to bring production back into the USA when that happened although that may have been a carefully nuanced statement designed to give the audience a certain impression (and it is irrelevant with the change from FMIC to CPG anyway).

Introducing the Guild Westerly Collection

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods

Gone But Not Forgotten

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Venerated Member

Senior Member

Gone But Not Forgotten

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Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods