just got back from Frankfurt Musik messe and....

Trolls are on every forum those days, it's so easy to hide behind a username, best to ignore them and not give them a platform to spread their poison...Let him be happy with his old guitars, that is all that counts.
Ralf

Walter's original post noted the absence of USA made Guilds at the show. There is an email to a Guild dealer from Ren quoted elsewhere that says as of the day it was written (early April 2015) no US Guilds had been produced at Oxnard. So no USA Guilds at the show is exactly what was expected.

I concur with the idea that using the word "Westerly" to describe guitars made elsewhere is confusing and appears to be the work of someone in marketing who does not know the brand very well. I am cynical enough to believe that the decision will not be labeled a mistake and reconsidered. I recall all of the angsty discussions concerning Guild marketing when New Hartford was ramping up and remind people that LTG almost certainly does not represent the target market and audience for the new line. How many of us are going to buy one no matter what they are called?

fronobulax said:

Walter's original post noted the absence of USA made Guilds at the show. There is an email to a Guild dealer from Ren quoted elsewhere that says as of the day it was written (early April 2015) no US Guilds had been produced at Oxnard. So no USA Guilds at the show is exactly what was expected.

How many of us are going to buy one no matter what they are called?

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Funds withstanding, my plan is to eventually land a new M20, regardless. The one caveat is there is no Dash between the M and the 20. Other than that, I am good.

fronobulax said:

(...) LTG almost certainly does not represent the target market and audience for the new line. How many of us are going to buy one no matter what they are called?

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Well, you're right, but LTG does represent an "echo chamber" for the image of the brand. People proud of a brand that live and talk to other people, I think good marketing people should care to preserve this. It's not the target, it's the first circle. It's like the first-range dealers, the ones that create the roots of success before bigger dealers amplify it... You don't want to have them against you, especially for such a silly reason: after all, a lot of excellent series names could be easily found. Half a day of brainstorming with the staff and it's done.

Ugh, blurred distinctions continue. Oh well. Clearly a continuation of the Newark St. historical marketing concept.

While I don't like this very much, and completely agree that there needs to be some sort of MIC information on the label, I think you guys are taking this a little wrong. Just like Newark St. was an homage to Hoboken, this is an homage to Westerly.

Will it sell more guitars? That, I don't know.

fronobulax said:

I approved the post but you are certainly acting more like a Troll than someone who wants to contribute in any positive way. I think a couple of your statements are ambiguous enough that you may not have your facts correct and your opinion that Fender killed Guild seems to belittle the contribution of the New Hartford made instruments to the brand, among other things.

But welcome anyway.

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I don't know, Frono, but have to agree that in the end Fender killed Guild. There are other statements that I agree with but to avoid flames won't repeat. I think that the Orpheums will return and a couple more "traditional" models. But after they get the taste of child labor wages and the fact that they can make a whole lot more profit that way most of the future Guilds will be PAC Rim. I would hope this wouldn't happen but my gut tells me otherwise.

chazmo said:

Just like Newark St. was an homage to Hoboken, this is an homage to Westerly.

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This is a good attitude Chaz, and I see no reason not to adopt it...

fronobulax said:

I am cynical enough to believe that the decision will not be labeled a mistake and reconsidered.

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It's the rare business that will consider, admit, and rectify a mistake. Hell, it's a rare person who will do the same. So, just like frono, I hold little hope of this mistake being rectified. If Ren was still with Gibson, I wonder what he'd think about them coming out with a Chinese built line of Gibson acoustics called "The Bozeman Collection"? Or, maybe "The Kalamazoo Collection"?

The "Guild Acoustic Design" moniker was always good with me. And even though that name has been abandoned, everyone pretty much still refers to the Chinese built guitars as "GADs". So, apparently changing names of things often is not helpful, nor is it successful.

fronobulax said:

Walter's original post noted the absence of USA made Guilds at the show.

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I think you understood what I said, but just to be clear - there were USA acoustics at the show, Guilds and Orpheums, but all old-stock NH production, just like at the last NAMM show.

chazmo said:

Just like Newark St. was an homage to Hoboken, this is an homage to Westerly.

Will it sell more guitars? That, I don't know.

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An homage it is, and certainly not a bad intention. But a lack of taste, as English people would put it :friendly_wink:.

Walter Broes said:

I think you understood what I said, but just to be clear - there were USA acoustics at the show, Guilds and Orpheums, but all old-stock NH production, just like at the last NAMM show.

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Walter, what was the diff in tone between the Westerly collection and say a similar modeled NH?

I didn't play them - the booth was very crowded and busy while I was there, and I wasn't there all that long.

Well the Guild plant in Westerly was on Industrial Drive. So the "Industrial Drive Collection" doesn't really have much of a ring to it.



I understand the using the Westerly name, and it does honor the heritage, but I have to agree it will be confusing.

Utter Blasphemy !!!!

The Guilds of Grot said:

Well the Guild plant in Westerly was on Industrial Drive. So the "Industrial Drive Collection" doesn't really have much of a ring to it.

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Lucky for them that Guild has SO MANY different factories over the years!! Plenty of others to chose from!! LMAO!!

Maybe with a nod to "Westerly" they could consider the country of origin and call it "The Easterly Collection"?

Maybe not..... :unconscious:

mario1956 said:

I don't know, Frono, but have to agree that in the end Fender killed Guild.

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Perhaps I am too much of a rational literalist to post on the internet but if Fender killed Guild then Guild should be dead today and should have started smelling funny in the late 1990's. I don't think Guild is dead today and I don't think it was dead during the New Hartford years and it can be debated that some of Westerly's finest production was produced under Fender stewardship. Once the production line at Oxnard starts producing guitars I going to have a hard time understanding what "dead" means if Guild is dead.

I agree that Fender made some mistakes managing the brand and it is easy to imagine one or two more missteps that would have made Guild just another name that Fender owned but had no product, but that didn't happen.

Indicating the instrument sizes by a consistent series of letters seems like a good thing (i.e. M, OM, D, F), in my opinion. And the different model numbers for the US-built versus Asian-built instruments will help mitigate confusion, at least among those already familiar with Guild's model numbers.

But it does seem like an obviously poor choice to re-use the name "Westerly".

We've been in panic mode before when they closed Tacoma. Sit tight and see what happens. I've heard some good things and some crappy things that CMG is doing lately. I wouldn't buy a nos New Hartford Guild without a return policy as I have become skeptical about CMG's warrenty support. That's someone else' story to tell, not mine.

mario1956 said:

I don't know, Frono, but have to agree that in the end Fender killed Guild.

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Fender originally purchased Guild to have a Horse in the one race they were never been able to run in. The Acoustic Guitar Market. They had a hand in just about every musical market with the exception of the acoustic guitar market. I know they moved production from Westerly/Nashville to Corona to Tacoma to finally settle in New Hartford over an eight year period. But honestly look at what they did for Brand Recognition. Throughout the entire time period of all the moves they really made great guitars. I have always thought Guild deserved to be mentioned in the same conversation with Gibson and Martin but Fender made that thinking MainStream with the instruments they produced, Culminating in the magic they created at New Hartford. Every guitar I have played and or Owned from the "Fender" era have all been on par with the other manufacturers if not Well above par in Quality, Construction, and Tone. To be honest I think that all of the New Hartford Models are far superior to any of the other manufacturers based on tone and value for the working musician. Then they had the insight to go out and get Ren Ferguson to head up R&D and streamline things. I think if anything, Fender gave Guild a chance to shine and show folks that otherwise wouldn't consider them as an option how wonderful they really are. Even though I think the "Westerly Collection" name is somewhat a slap in the face to the instruments made at Westerly, I still have faith. If Cordoba and Ren can capture even a glimpse in Oxnard of the Magic that was being created in New Hartford, I think Guild will be alive for a long time to come. Just my opinion on the subject so take it for what it's worth.:friendly_wink:

Default said:

We've been in panic mode before when they closed Tacoma. Sit tight and see what happens. I've heard some good things and some crappy things that CMG is doing lately. I wouldn't buy a nos New Hartford Guild without a return policy as I have become skeptical about CMG's warrenty support. That's someone else' story to tell, not mine.

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Hey Default, I just went through the whole Warranty thing when I purchased the Anniversary D55. The way it was explained to me per the agreement between Fender and Cordoba is that Cordoba has to honor all warranty claims for Guild Guitars with the exception of the Guild Arcos series. If you are the original owner and purchased your Guild with full warranty Cordoba has to honor it. If you purchase a New Hartford guitar today sold as new with warranty, Codoba has to honor it. When they acquired Guild from Fender they acquired all of the warranty assets as well with the exception of the Arcos series. One of the main parts of purchasing the Anniversary D55 was that it had a warranty since it had never been sold new. The shop I purchased it from verified through Cordoba that they would honor the warranty on it even though it is 13 years old and was made in Corona.