Vintage Starfire vs JS-II: a comparison

nmiller

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I picked up my 1970 JS-II last year when I started playing bass in a new group and decided that I needed a pro-level instrument. I've always been interested in the Starfires, though, since when it comes to guitars I'm mainly a hollowbody player. I wasn't sure that I could justify two basses with Bi-Sonics, but this I saw that this 1969 specimen had a maple body (vs. mahogany on the JS-II) so I took a chance on it.

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I'm glad I did, since the two instruments have a similar feel but very different sounds. The Starfire has oddly unbalanced pickups - the bridge is much hotter than the neck. Maybe this is due to how the bass boost switch is wired; I don't know. The pickups are also mounted about 1/8" too high, so when you set the action below medium the strings keep hitting the magnets. The bass boost switches between a bassy and a trebly "baritone" filtered tone on the neck pickup, neither of which are very usable by themselves (I have the same complaint about the Gibson EB-2, from which Guild stole the idea). The bridge pickup is very hot and has a "scooped" tone, with plenty of treble and bass but not much mid-range. However, if you set the neck pickup to "baritone" and blend it with the bridge, it becomes almost like a mid-frequency boost. The resulting sound (which can be adjusted using the neck volume control) is superb, especially if you like warm, mid-rangey bass tones. It works even better if you roll back the tone control on the neck pickup.

The JS-II has a Hagastrom humbucker in the bridge position, so it's not an apples-to-apples comparison in terms of sound. This bass has more conventional wiring except that the two pickups are out of phase in the middle position. The resulting sound is interesting but not very usable due to the extreme drop in volume compared to either pickup on its own. The neck and bridge are pretty well balanced, but I had to raise the bridge pickup to achieve this. I'm still not nuts about the Bi-sonic on its own in the neck, but it's less muddy and more usable than the Starfire. I really like the bridge pickup on its own - not bright, but clear and warm at the same time. I'm considering re-wiring the bass so the two pickup are in phase, thus giving it another usable sound. I typically prefer fingers on the JS-II but I'm starting to really like the sound of a pick on the Starfire. I'm happy to report that the two instruments are definitely not redundant.

The two instruments handle similarly. The Starfire is a bit heavier, but not so much that I really feel the difference on my shoulder. The Starfire's neck is a tiny bit bigger, but the overall profiles are similar. They're both well-balanced in terms of center of gravity, though the JS-II is slightly neck-heavy.

I noticed that the headstocks are not quite the same. Is this a Hoboken vs Westerly thing, or just two jigs at the same factory?
 

fronobulax

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Thanks. Nice comparison.

On the headstock, if memory serves, circa 1970 when the Starfire changed to Guild humbuckers it also got a bigger headstock. I suspect that the JS, introduced around the same time, always had the bigger headstock and if you compare instruments from the same year I would expect the headstocks to be identical.

It is hard to generalize about a configuration as unusual as your JS but I would bet that being out of phase is either something that was done in error at the factory or a subsequent repair or modification.
 

nmiller

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I figured the phase thing was just something that Guild was doing around that time, since my '69 Bluesbird was also out of phase and I don't think the wiring on either instrument has been touched.
 

ukulelelab

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I noticed that the headstocks are not quite the same. Is this a Hoboken vs Westerly thing, or just two jigs at the same factory?

Two Jigs at the Westerly factory IMO but what do I know. Other people who are more clued up will chime in. Guessing your Starfire II has a Hoboken NJ label inside it then?
 

Happy Face

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Thanks very much for the comparison. Frono has given us some input but his JS-II does not have the Bisonic.

Regarding the phase of the pickups, my M-85 appears to suffer from the same phase mismatch. As you suggest, it reduces the usefulness of the middle position. I need to change that since I like to have the option of using the middle position and changing tone by lifting or reducing the volume of the neck pup.

How complicated is it to rewire the pickups into phase?

But first, things first, outside of the volume drop off, is there another way to make certain a set of pups are in or out of phase?
 
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mavuser

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thought for a moment you were "borrowing" one of my pictures from several months back...nice pair!

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on my JS II i would not call the volume drop in the middle position "extreme." I would say the tones of all 3 positions are quite different, and the midddle position sounds fantastic. it does have a slight volume drop compared to the other 2 on their own, but the difference is suddle, its more of a tone change, and its very usefull and functioning in the middle position. no idea if its out of phase or not. my SF II sounds pretty good all around. i belive on that one the tranformer/choke/coil/watever it is has been bypassed, and the rest of the circut left alone. the suck switch still does "something" when you push the button, but not much (especially when compared to the factory suck switch)
 

mavuser

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the bridge mini humbuker on mine is really bright. the Bisonic in the neck is very warm, punchy and bassy. for a two pick-up Guild solid body bass, with no "suck switch" of the 60s and no "deep-hard" switch of the 70s, there is a chance these are all wired out of phase, because it may have been too loud/too strong the normal way in the middle position, with these 2 particular Hagstroms. maybe Guild got the pickups that way, from Hagstrom, wired by Hagstrom.

on mine it seems like the tone pot of my bridge pickup works in reverse fashion. you turn the tone up, and its more bass. most treble at zero. would this be explained by out of phase wiring on the bridge pickup?

here's a closer look at my walnut warrior

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