Westerly R.I dreadnought with solid mahagony back and sides

fretless

Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2010
Messages
673
Reaction score
7
Location
Birmingham, Alabama
And Rick, your guild guitar collection is awesome.

thanks, Woodman. after I got the Martin, I was done. I always considered the Big 3 (not counting boutiques) to be Guild, Gibson, and Martin. mine are completely different and each awesome in their own ways. I feel REALLY lucky. Happy New Year to you and yours!
 

DSUS2

Junior Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2014
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Location
Oregon
thanks, Woodman. after I got the Martin, I was done. I always considered the Big 3 (not counting boutiques) to be Guild, Gibson, and Martin. mine are completely different and each awesome in their own ways. I feel REALLY lucky. Happy New Year to you and yours!

Thanks again for all the great info-I will see what I can find in the way of a D40 out of Westerly or New Hartford-I notice a few D40CE's out there that were made in New Hartford and I have to admit I like the cutaway as I am used to having one on the Martin RTGE that I play and I do use those upper frets on some of my lead runs that I play-nice to be able to use the acoustic for that when I want to and not have to go to the Tele for lead runs on the upper frets. I also see a few sunburst D40s and visually I like that too.
 

Westerly Wood

Venerated Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
13,323
Reaction score
6,496
Guild Total
2
Reverb.com has some good old Hoboken nearly westerly D40s that look good too at around 1K. Gbase seems too pricey for the same.
 

Guitarfish

Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
118
Reaction score
0
I have been mildly interested in a D40, but I see a D35 for sale. What are the major differences? Just trim level?
 

Neal

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
4,856
Reaction score
1,627
Location
Charlottesville, VA
Pretty much, guitarfish. The D-35 and D-40 are the same size and same tonewoods (sitka/mahogany). Both have rosewood fretboards and bridges, I believe.

The D-35 has a silkscreen headstock logo and black binding front and back, while the D-40 has the MOP Chesterfield headstock inlay and iveroid binding. Both have fretboard dot position markers.

There may be some bracing differences, but I'm not sure about that.

I would describe my D-35 as bright and jangly for a mahogany guitar, especially with Elixer Nanoweb 20/80's on it. It has amazing sustain. IT has taken the past few years and a bunch of other Guilds in my hands to truly appreciate the D-35 I have owned for 40 years. It can hold its own against anything in my closet.

Neal

'71 F-20
'71 D-25
'73 D-35
'81 D-212
'99 X-150
'12 F-50 Std
'13 M-120 (for sale)
'13 F-47R
'13 Orpheum 12-fret D
'14 Orpheum 12-fret 000 RW
 

Westerly Wood

Venerated Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
13,323
Reaction score
6,496
Guild Total
2
I have been mildly interested in a D40, but I see a D35 for sale. What are the major differences? Just trim level?

There is something larger sounding in a D40 vs a D35. Every D40 I have played was bigger sounding than my D35. Maybe it is a bracing thing. Wouldn't the D40 have had higher grade tone woods? Anyway, D35s are sweet, and I regret selling mine now, but had I a choice, I'd get a D40.
 

mavuser

Enlightened Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
8,128
Reaction score
2,636
Location
New York
acccording to Hans' book, the D-40 has a 3-piece mahogany/maple neck, and the D-35 has an all-mahogony (1-piece?) neck. The D-35 would also have dark tortious shell or black binding, where the D-40, as Neal stated would be white/iveroid binding. Hans' book also references a 5-inch body depth for the D-40; and 4 7/8-inch body depth for the D-35, but there may be some variation here (I would not not buy one or the other based on body depth alone, at least not without playing it first...). The D-35, or some of them, have a different (smaller) pickguard. some Guilds can maybe be considered the "evil twin" of other Guilds. perhaps the D-35 is one of them. I used to think a solid/flat backed, spruce topped D-25 was a rare bird, until I realized that would essentialy make it a D-35, or a D-40 (making it is about as rare as sand in a desert)
 

Westerly Wood

Venerated Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
13,323
Reaction score
6,496
Guild Total
2
Maybe the 1/8 inch more depth is what I hear.
 

Ronald Reagan

Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2014
Messages
138
Reaction score
1
Pretty much, guitarfish. The D-35 and D-40 are the same size and same tonewoods (sitka/mahogany). Both have rosewood fretboards and bridges, I believe.

The D-35 has a silkscreen headstock logo and black binding front and back, while the D-40 has the MOP Chesterfield headstock inlay and iveroid binding. Both have fretboard dot position markers.

There may be some bracing differences, but I'm not sure about that.

I would describe my D-35 as bright and jangly for a mahogany guitar, especially with Elixer Nanoweb 20/80's on it. It has amazing sustain. IT has taken the past few years and a bunch of other Guilds in my hands to truly appreciate the D-35 I have owned for 40 years. It can hold its own against anything in my closet.

Neal

'71 F-20
'71 D-25
'73 D-35
'81 D-212
'99 X-150
'12 F-50 Std
'13 M-120 (for sale)
'13 F-47R
'13 Orpheum 12-fret D
'14 Orpheum 12-fret 000 RW

Even those baby blue leisure suits?
 

Neal

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
4,856
Reaction score
1,627
Location
Charlottesville, VA
Threw them out with the love beads and my pet rock, Ronald.

To my eyes, my '71 D-25 and '73 D-35 are absolutely identical in every respect except for the top (mahogany vs Sitka spruce). Same dimensions, same back and sides, same trim, same neck.

Neal
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,790
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
acccording to Hans' book, the D-40 has a 3-piece mahogany/maple neck, and the D-35 has an all-mahogony (1-piece?) neck.
Just expanding on a good start:
Only early production had 3-piece necks, don't remember exactly when they went to 1-pc, but I think it was done by the mid '70's.. (Isn't it in the book? Then maybe it was later..)
The D-35 would also have dark tourtoise shell or black binding, where the D-40, as Neal stated would be white/iveroid binding. Hans' book also references a 5-inch body depth for the D-40; and 4 7/8-inch body depth for the D-35, but there may be some variation here (I would not not buy one or the other based on body depth alone, at least not without playing it first...)
In fact Hans has explained before that there was a potential for as much as a 1/2" of variance even in the same model because of how the bodies were built. "IIRC", it was because the bucks for setting up the sides weren't all precisely the same height and the variation occurred when the rims were sanded in preparation for putting on the top. I seem to recall that in fact they didn't overcome that problem until New Hartford
If one guitar was 1/4" over spec and one was a 1/4" under, presto, you've got 1/2" variation between two samples of the same model, although that would be pretty extreme.
But an 1/8" of variance in depth is really more like "standard production tolerance", "LOL!" :wink:
The D-35 has a silkscreen headstock logo and black binding front and back, while the D-40 has the MOP Chesterfield headstock inlay and
I seem to recall it was mentioned very recently, D40's didn't actually get a chesterfield until mid-67.
There may be some bracing differences, but I'm not sure about that.
I think that might be the most likely explanation for any sonic differencesbetween D35/D40, but I've never seen specs for either one and they may have changed over time anyway.
Wouldn't the D40 have had higher grade tone woods?
I'd be kind of surprised, also, what literature I have seen (and that's NOT a whole lot, but maybe somebody else has lit), only ever references if the top wood was an upgrade to AAA from their everyday sitka. Quality of woods of backs/sides was never shown, that I've seen.
Even for the flagship D55 and later D100, it would seem to make sense that they'd select best available woods in inventory for those guitars, but I've never seen a flat-out confirmation of that. I doubt that they'd have bothered to select for woods between for D40's and D35's but that's just based on what I've read here over the years.
From another angle, they probably already had relatively (for the time) high grade woods in inventory anyway and didn't really need to select. It's been mentioned before that Guild had some pretty discriminating graders.
Over the years we've seen other changes in "formula" that I've only seen documented here, such as bracing changes, or thinner or thicker backs/sides/ tops. Running production changes and even things like bracing specs weren't always published and so there're a bunch of unknown variables between production eras and models and they can add up to noticable differences in sound quality.

The D-35, or some of them, have a different (smaller) pickguard. some Guilds can maybe be considered the "evil twin" of other Guilds. perhaps the D-35 is one of them. I used to think a solid/flat backed, spruce topped D-25 was a rare bird, until I realized that would essentialy make it a D-35 or a D-40 (making it is about as rare as sand in a desert)
What I can't see from here where I post is whether or not the D35 was introduced at a time when the D40 was in "hiatus". (Han's book is at home, I'm not), that might explain why the specs are so close to the D40's. For instance, the D40 was in hiatus during the mid-90's when the DV6 was filling the slot of the flatback 'hog body dread.
Or it could just have been one of those situations where a viable niche was seen for a slightly "de-blinged" D40, just like that pair of "evil twins", the D25 and the D4.
:wink:
 

Westerly Wood

Venerated Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
13,323
Reaction score
6,496
Guild Total
2
Great breakdown, Al. I too then have to deduce what I hear is bracing. As to the obvious sonic difference favoring the D40. However, I had a D40 from westerly with double pick guards years ago, didn't sound nearly as full as the Hoboken I played at GC. Plus, it would be unfair to compare a westerly D40 Or D35 with a Tacoma 40 with adi top.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,790
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Great breakdown, Al. I too then have to deduce what I hear is bracing. As to the obvious sonic difference favoring the D40. However, I had a D40 from westerly with double pick guards years ago, didn't sound nearly as full as the Hoboken I played at GC. Plus, it would be unfair to compare a westerly D40 Or D35 with a Tacoma 40 with adi top.
I got a soft spot for D40's myself, being Richie Havens' go-to favorite (see my sig) and the guitar that opened Woodstock, but surprisingly enough for their reputation, mine's the sonic runt of my litter.
It took me a while to realize there's probably a combination of factors at work behind that:
I installed the second 'guard, as seen in my current avatar.
It's been debated how much that actually cuts down on top resonance. Surprisingly some folks here whose opinions I repect didn't think it would be significant, so I started looking at other factors:
It's got excellently smooth but thick finish.
It's got a factory UST, and I think that's why it's also got an exceptionally thick bridge (7/16" vs 5/16" for the Westerlys) and the saddle is both thicker and taller than the Westerlys too: 6/32" tall and 5/32" thick vs 5/32 tall and 3/32 thick for the D25.
Anyway, there's a LOT of bridge mass on that puppy.
Maybe it's good for keeping top resonance down in the amplified mode, I don't know because I never even plugged it in that I recall (needs a preamp, don't have one).
Maybe it's because it needs mediums even though the specs call for, and it was shipped with lights.
Or maybe by the time I bought it I was just jaded by all that wonderful arch-backed goodness coming from the D25 and F65ce.
But just one more example of how many different details can affect overall tone/volume.
 
Last edited:

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,790
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
What I can't see from here where I post is whether or not the D35 was introduced at a time when the D40 was in "hiatus". Or it could just have been one of those situations where a viable niche was seen for a slightly "de-blinged" D40, just like that pair of "evil twins", the D25 and the D4.
:wink:
Since the question gets asked periodically, I checked the book last night and by golly, the D35 was introduced at the same time as the D25 in '68 and the D40 had already been in production for 5 years and was still in production at the time.
And the original "spec" was 4-7/8" deep vs 5" for the D40 but also shows it became 5" later on.
Makes ya wonder if they got tired of tryin' to maintain any difference between the two when building rims, LOL!
But it does tend to lead to the conclusion that they simply saw a viable niche for an entry level 'hog-bodied flatback.
Or more precisely, apparently Mark Dronge the founder's son did, as I was reminded in the text that he was the primary reason Guild got into dreadnaughts at all. (!)
 
Last edited:

chazmo

Super Moderator
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
25,455
Reaction score
7,110
Location
Central Massachusetts
Shucks, Al. We could've asked Mark about the specs and intents of the early dreads at the last LMG as he and his family attended. Mark is one sharp guy. He remembers everything.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,790
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Shucks, Al. We could've asked Mark about the specs and intents of the early dreads at the last LMG as he and his family attended. Mark is one sharp guy. He remembers everything.
Mark who?
( :highly_amused: )
Oh yeah....MARK....the guy who shot down my "real origin of the chesterfield" theory in one swell fooop....wasn't that enough for one get together?
:biggrin-new:
 
Top