Thinking about Bigsby, of course the Guild version, for '66 Starfire V

Jennifer

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I have been thinking about the Bigsby tail for almost half a century....and now I see the Guild versions on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231386980917?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Is this the model that would be historically correct for my 1966 Starfire V, EN784? If so, what would be the correct bridge to use with it, or would my Hagstrom Adjusto-Matic be just fine with the Bigsby? I kinda like my bridge for its ease of adjustemnt, and its low profile, and would think twice about replacing it.

If this Bigsby is not correct, what are the differences that make it wrong? Is there a different recently made model that is correct? Is the recent manufacture Bigsby just plain different from the old ones and wrong from a historially correct perspective to install on my 1966? Sorry about all the questions...I only ask here because THIS is the place where the Guild experts are! I would only want to install a new tail IF it would be period correct. I don't want modern looking parts on my vintage Guild, even if used on modern Guilds.

The grounding wire from the circuits to my harp tailpiece has failed...I have to remove the strings, remove the tailpiece, and replace or pull out more of the ground wire, depending on where and how the problem is...As long as I have that project to do, it got me thinking again about the Bigsby vibrato....Of course, if I changed it out, I would keep the original tail with the instrument.

Happy Holidays everyone!
Jennifer

THANKS in advance for comments and thoughts,
Jennifer

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hansmoust

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Jennifer

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Hi Hans, I don't have your book yet, though it is in my que to purchase in the near months. I did find an online representation of a few of the pages in it that discuss the Bigsby, specifically, page 37. From what I read there, you state the B-9 was introduced in 1967, a little after the time of my 1966. On that page you mention that the regular Bigsby of the time, as the B-6 and that the Guild version was later known as the B-2, originally available in 1961 and presumably used until the advent of the B-9 in 1967. You also state on the same page that Guild still had an inventory of non-Guild Bigsby units in stock and offered them as options on some instruments through the early 60s. Aparently also in 67, the double cutaway models went to neck joint at 18th fret, from 16th fret, and it was at that time the slightly longer Bigsby B-7 with the extra roller, also called the B-9, when carrying the Guild logo, came into being. I am more than a little confused. I think for now, I will do additional reserach and look for more period photographs that show details of known serial number instruments...but for now will just remove and re-install the stock harp tailpiece after diagnosing and repairing the loss of the ground conection to it. This happened once before, long ago...I recall back in the later 1970s or there abouts. The small soild wire that extends back to the harp had fractured at the right angle bend under the tailpieve. I just pulled a little more wire out and put it all back together. This time, if broken at the same locatiion, I will file a tiny radius into the wood where the wire exits, so as to releive the stress from a very sharp bend, kept under high pressure. I have learned more about Bigsby and the Guild variations in the past day than the previous half century, and am now very interested, more than ever, in discovering even more and eventually obtaining a correct vintage item for my old pal. Right now I am not going to let this hold up my goal of having her playworthy again over the Holiday.
 

Jennifer

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Further thoughts.. I have found photos of EN353, also a 1966. It has a Guild Bigsby with the roller bar, and it is SN before mine which is later in the year,EN784... The roller bar would make this a B-9? and if factory fitted to a SN before mine, would indacate the turnover to this series was during early 1966, probably well before the neck mount move from 16th to 18th fret, in 1967, not exactly at the same time.
EN353
 

hansmoust

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Jennifer,

When you dive into this, you will probably find out that 'guitar history' is not exactly an exact science. What the people at the Guild factory did, was not with the thought in mind that it had to make sense to some historian 40+ years down the line. However, most things that happened at the time can be explained, once you know how they worked.
The dates that are given in my book are approximate dates, based on the examples of the various model that were examined by me almost 20 years ago.
Today I could give you much more precise dates and I could even tell you (for almost every guitar model) at what (approximate) serial number certain specs changes were implemented. If you do a proper search in the LTG archives you will find quite a few corrections that I've made over the years.

As far as the specs. changes that took place on the Starfire IV, V & VI are concerned, the change from the neck joint at the 16th fret to the 18th fret took place during 1966, not in 1967 as I thought when I published the book. The change to the B-9 Bigsby may look to you as it happened earlier, but the reason why you find guitars with the neck joint at the 16th fret that have B-9 Bigsby units is because those are instruments that were already in production when the decision to use the B-9 was made. We're looking at already shaped necks, completed superstructures ready for finishing and completely finished superstructures that were waiting to be completed in final assembly. A couple of months 'work in progress' in those days would have added up to several hundred 'transition' guitars that would not confirm to the catalog specifications for that particular period.

Here's a little piece that I posted on the LTG pages many years ago and I re-post it from time to time when someone new comes in and wonders why certain things are like they are:

Guild guitars were made in batches of 6, 12 or 24 etc. From a manufacturing standpoint it was easier to make them in batches because of the change of tooling necessary to produce the different models. When the superstructures were completed they were serial numbered, which took place in the 'finishing' dept. After that the finish was applied and the guitars were hung to dry. After sufficient drying they would be buffed and placed in racks, where they would stay till an order came in. Obviously, if they started production they already had orders, but not always for the complete batch. Only the guitars they had orders for (plus the guitars that could be put in inventory because they were ordered on a regular basis) would be taken to 'final assembly', where the superstructure would get all the necessary parts to become a musical instrument and where it would be set up. Now the order in which they were taken from the racks was random, so it was possible for a higher serial number to come through 'final assembly' before a lower number. A lower serial number could stay on the racks for a very long time while a later serial number would already be hanging on a dealer's wall. I have several instruments in my collection that have serial numbers of which I know they were applied in a specific year; I also know that some of the hardware on these instruments was introduced years later, which shows that these instruments stayed on the racks for a very long time before they came through 'final assembly'. This usually happened with instruments that were not very popular during a specific period or with instruments that were already discontinued.

So the serial number on a guitar doesn't automatically tell you when a guitar was completed and in some cases this explains some of the quirky stuff you might come across.


Go ahead and buy a copy of 'The Guild Guitar Book'. For all practical purposes it's still quite accurate. If you still have questions after that, you can post them on these pages and I'll try to answer them.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

Jennifer

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Hans, I really appreciate your incredible knowledge and your willingness to be so helpful here on the Forum.... Variations and oddities are the spice of life, and when we are talking about a hand-crafting business of half a centuy ago, there is absolutely going to be exceptions to every 'rule'. The fun part is discovery of these variations! Thanks for chiming in...for the time being I am just going to fix my ground and re-string with the harp tailpiece....but am going to be keeping an eye out for a 'most likely' correct Bigsby to eventually convert...In the meantime, I hope to have her playable before years end...Its just a half day job, but I have to work in the time between everthing else.... Cheers
 
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