Anyone pick up a new Aristocrat? Anyone know the plan for Guild electrics post sale?

jcwu said:

If guitars selling for just under $1k are considered student guitars...either students are very wealthy these days, or Guild is branching out of the workingman's guitar market!

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If you take your craft seriously, and your work is playing music, you want to sound as good as can be. As jazz musicians, if we choose to play an archtop, it can't be cheap just by the amount of work that goes into making one. If they are cheap, it simply means that makers cut a lot of corners, which affects the quality proportionally. You can gig with NS guitars (I do for now), but why should you given the choice? I'm not collecting guitars, I rather invest into some quality instrument that I can play and enjoy. $3000 is not much. Play a few weddings and basically it pays for itself.

I found this article for you, still think it's expensive? read!:fat:

http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/20364-spoiled-guitarists-that-guitar-costs-emhowem-much

jcwu said:

If guitars selling for just under $1k are considered student guitars...either students are very wealthy these days, or Guild is branching out of the workingman's guitar market!

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I agree. I have a GSR T-400, which is beautiful, but the three Newark Street models don't strike me as being student instruments. I've olayed jobs on them and can't think of any reason to want more in a guitar. The fit and finish is excellent, the hardware is excellent and the electrical parts are fine, with the exception of the low output bridge pickup, a problem shared by my T-400.

Synchro said:

I agree. I have a GSR T-400, which is beautiful, but the three Newark Street models don't strike me as being student instruments. I've olayed jobs on them and can't think of any reason to want more in a guitar. The fit and finish is excellent, the hardware is excellent and the electrical parts are fine, with the exception of the low output bridge pickup, a problem shared by my T-400.

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I agree mostly, but the pots on my NSX175 have gone scratchy already, the switch rattles, the nut on the output jack has mysteriously worked itself loose at one point (never happened to me before on any archtop), and there are a few reports of the reissue Franz pickups falling apart, one of which I've witnessed and fixed.

That said, the investment in four decent pots, a switchcraft jack and switch is not that high, and the NS guitars are very, very impressive for the price indeed. But I can't get the nuances out of the X175 I can get out of my old ones.

I replaced all the pots, got switchcraft jack, bridge, pickups etc. It's still a student guitar, just an advanced student guitar:fat: Hardware is not a problem, but the acoustic properties of the NS archtop are. It's loud, and that's about it. No tone to speak of. The difference between NS and GSR/Westerly( haven't played a Hoboken one) is night and day in the tone department. I never gonna buy another NS for sure. But it's to my ears, if you find it's fine, then you are a happy man with a happy wallet:fat:

I just hope there's more people who would rather pay more and get the guitar built with American archtop tradition, and other than Gibson, so Guild will hear us out and expand the American line. There gotta be a market for this. That's all I hope for. No offense to NS fans.

I think we just might have different definitions of a "student". I'm thinking of a kid in middle school or high school who wants to start learning guitar (jazz, rock, whatever will get the girls!) because it's cool. For this crowd, the sub-$300 Ibanez jazzboxes should more than suffice! I think you're defining it as a serious student of the craft who wants to make guitar playing his profession. In which case, then yes, the NS guitars are good student guitars.

(jcwu, who until joining LTG has never even imagined paying over $1k for a guitar was a possibility in his life)

jcwu said:

I think we just might have different definitions of a "student". I think you're defining it as a serious student of the craft who wants to make guitar playing his profession. In which case, then yes, the NS guitars are good student guitars.

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Yes yes, thank you! Exactly what I meant!

NYWolf said:

I just hope there's more people who would rather pay more and get the guitar built with American archtop tradition, and other than Gibson, so Guild will hear us out and expand the American line. There gotta be a market for this. That's all I hope for. No offense to NS fans.

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You know this of course, but there's a whole assortment of nice, US-made second hand and vintage Guilds out there for very good prices. If you like laminated maple archtops with humbuckers, you can find an awful nice one for well under $2000 if you're a little patient.

That's gotta be the reason we haven't seen that many US built Guilds after Westerly - used Guild is new Guild's worst competitor in the guitar marketplace.

Walter Broes said:

You know this of course, but there's a whole assortment of nice, US-made second hand and vintage Guilds out there for very good prices. If you like laminated maple archtops with humbuckers, you can find an awful nice one for well under $2000 if you're a little patient.

That's gotta be the reason we haven't seen that many US built Guilds after Westerly - used Guild is new Guild's worst competitor in the guitar marketplace.

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Sure. I've been patient, but still haven't found the one. The problem is there are not that many you can actually try before you buy, the specs are not consistent to buy it off ebay or reverb sight unseen, when most of the time there is not even return option available. I live in the city with probably most guitar stores per sqaure in the world, and still Guilds electric archtops are pretty hard to find. Especially compare to Gibson, or even Gretsch.

Also, by this logic, Gibson should ve stopped producing new archtops long time ago, since there are so many vintage and second hand guitars available, no?

Where ever I hear bad reviews of the NS line of guitars, I am glad I have no uber toned, awesome quality, made in the cathedral of Guild factories to compare to. I got it to learn on and I am having a lot of fun with it. It doesn't hurt that I got it used, for a good price, from a fellow LTG guy.

JohnW63 said:

Where ever I hear bad reviews of the NS line of guitars, I am glad I have no uber toned, awesome quality, made in the cathedral of Guild factories to compare to. I got it to learn on and I am having a lot of fun with it. It doesn't hurt that I got it used, for a good price, from a fellow LTG guy.

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Just to be contrary, I disagree with you that there has been a bad review of a NS guitar in this thread. What there has been is miscommunication based upon differing definitions of the term "student guitar". The negative comments seem to me to be more about fitness for purpose and not a model in the NS line as such. Scratchy pots, flaky switches and so on may be issues with particular instruments or they may be the result of applying higher standards. I think we are all in violent agreement that a professional gigging musician is going to have different demands and expectations of their instruments as compared to someone who is playing for the fun of it and usually for an audience of one, unless cats or greyhounds wander by to hear what is happening

I totally love this discussion. There are so many different definitions that in the end it all becomes opinion IMHO. So here goes: Anyone who is in the process of learning is a student, yes/no? Since no one knows everything about anything we are all in the process of learning whether we acknowledge that fact or not. Not being a student would be a failure IMHO. Just to make it more complicated, 99.9% of audiences are not capable of discerning between tonal qualities of instruments. So it's only the performer and a handful of aficianados who could appreciate the difference between a $1k instrument and a $10k instrument. The argument that performing artists need extravagant instruments goes out the window when at the end of the show they smash said instruments on the stage or light them on fire. The only person who truly appreciates the sound of a given instrument is the person playing it IMHO. The three variables involved would be: the quality of the instrument, the skill level of the person playing said instrument, and who is listening. I might also suggest that there is a whole socio-economic dynamic going on also but that discussion is most probably not appropriate in this setting so please delete this sentence from your memory. In the end, It ain't the arrow, it's the injun. IMHO.

Respectfully submitted. IMHO

So now you're dissing tomahawk fans???? >:-/

griehund, there's more to instrument quality than sound, and that's where the real "pro" factor comes in to play, IMO. I used to have one of those "DeArmond" brand guitars, the big 17" hollowbody one. And I could talk about how it did or didn't sound, but that's not the point here : the guitar didn't travel well. I found myself adjusting the truss rod waaaaay more often than should be normal, something that never happened to me with other guitars subjected to the same travel circumstances - it plain wasn't built very well, and wasn't stable.

I'm going to do something crazy. I'm going to respond to the OP. :hororr: :hopelessness:

I bought a black NS Aristocrat a while back from another member. I play mostly jazz, so I haven't spent much time with it since then. Last night upon returning home from the Thanksgiving day festivities I was in a dirty mood.

With a torn rotator cuff in need of surgery I was looking to keep things as light as possible, so I reached for my NS Aristocrat. As for amps, I just bought the new Fender Mustang IV 2x12, so I dialed in a nice gritty preset, cued up Desdemona by The Allman Brothers Band on my Sonos player, plugged in, and let it rip. I noticed that the intonation was a little off, which was no big deal. After a few tweaks of the saddles everything was pitch perfect. I then restarted the tune, and began to play. This guitar/amp combo sounded insanely good! By the time I got 2 minutes into the tune I had increased the volume to the point where my neighbors were probably cursing me. The tune finished, and I liked it so much that I cued up the tune again, and gave my neighbors an encore performance. I then played my Aristocrat until 2am, and created a nice clean and jazzy preset on the amp in the process.

I have been toying with the idea of picking up either a vintage Aristocrat or an AP model. After last night I'm not so sure it's worth the added cost of $2300 - $3500. If I had to I could simply have the pickups rewound and the pots upgraded, but I'm not even sure that is needed. I paid $750 for this guitar, and even if my AP and GSR guitars get most of my attention this NS Aristocrat is one fantastic guitar! I still may lose it one day to a GAS attack, but for now I'm loving it!

Walter Broes said:

griehund, there's more to instrument quality than sound, and that's where the real "pro" factor comes in to play, IMO. I used to have one of those "DeArmond" brand guitars, the big 17" hollowbody one. And I could talk about how it did or didn't sound, but that's not the point here : the guitar didn't travel well. I found myself adjusting the truss rod waaaaay more often than should be normal, something that never happened to me with other guitars subjected to the same travel circumstances - it plain wasn't built very well, and wasn't stable.

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That's a point I've often wondered about. If a guy is a pro and makes a bazillion dollars a year I can see where it would not matter too much how much he/she spends on an instrument. If it is damaged in the rigors of travel it's no big deal. If a guy is not making a bazillion dollars then I would think the cost of instruments would become a factor. Would the middle of the road pro be better served by a less expensive instrument that is more easily replaced? Also is there a trade off point between the sound/build quality variables? If the expense is constant, which is more important, sound or structure? I've heard some working musicians say that their gigging instrument was less expensive that their practice instrument because of the travel.
I couldn't make a living as a musician playing nekid in a women's prison but I've wondered what it would be like. I'll bet a nickle to a chicken nugget that every different player will come up with a different reason for making the decisions they make. I've been wrong before and I'm getting damned good at it.

Define "pro". I've made most of my living the last twenty years of my life with my guitar in hand, whether it was gigging/touring, teaching, working in a guitar store, etc...

More than half of the time, the guitar in question was an early 60's Hoboken Guild archtop.

Maybe a read more of a negative slant on this review,

Hardware is not a problem, but the acoustic properties of the NS archtop are. It's loud, and that's about it. No tone to speak of. The difference between NS and GSR/Westerly( haven't played a Hoboken one) is night and day in the tone department. I never gonna buy another NS for sure.

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But , then again, maybe not.

I think I need to stop reading forums and find the limits of the instrument in my lap, based on my skill level or lack there of, and ignore reviews from folks who are a lot more experienced and demanding.

Walter Broes said:

Define "pro". I've made most of my living the last twenty years of my life with my guitar in hand, whether it was gigging/touring, teaching, working in a guitar store, etc...

More than half of the time, the guitar in question was an early 60's Hoboken Guild archtop.

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Walter Broes said:

Define "pro". I've made most of my living the last twenty years of my life with my guitar in hand, whether it was gigging/touring, teaching, working in a guitar store, etc...

More than half of the time, the guitar in question was an early 60's Hoboken Guild archtop.

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The standard definition of a professional is someone who gets payed to do what they do. You most certainly fit the bill. You get to choose what you play and it ain't nobody else's business. I, on the other hand, suck like a Hoover and I don't believe that a better instrument would improve my skills. If I did believe that, I'd be in deep doodoo cause I can't afford a GSR Guild. The last instrument I bought was a Yamaha for $50 at a flea market so I'm curious about other folks' decision processes. Anyway, here's another question. Put a $1k instrument in the hands of a beginner and then put the same instrument in the hands of an accomplished player. Obviously the difference between the two will be noticeable. At what point in the beginner's progress does a better instrument affect his ability? I've always thought that at my skill level a better instrument would be wasted on me. I don't "deserve" a $7k GSR Aristocrat. It's a good thing I don't cause I can't afford one. S'all good.

JohnW63 said:

Maybe a read more of a negative slant on this review,



But , then again, maybe not.

I think I need to stop reading forums and find the limits of the instrument in my lap, based on my skill level or lack there of, and ignore reviews from folks who are a lot more experienced and demanding.

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Just because one guitar is more expensive than another doesn't make the more expensive guitar better. I own a few AP Guilds and a GSR Starfire VI. While I love the tone and playability of these three guitars I can also say that the tone and playability of a 61 X-175, 56 CE-100, and 93 X-500 I once owned were nearly as good. In Walters hands his X-175's probably sound better as he is a much better player than I am. I also gave a Bluesbird to my nephew for his college graduation. That guitar cost me $900 in mint condition, and was a fantastic guitar that I could be happy playing regardless of my level. The NS Aristocrat is the same way. $750, and it rocks! However, it is human nature (for most) to constantly strive for something they perceive to be better, whether or not it truly is. At 5k the odds of a guitar being very good is nearly guaranteed. At 1k, not so much. Ultimately, beauty is in the eye and the ear of the beholder. What sounds loud and timeless to one will be exactly what another is looking for. Get out and play as many guitars as you can, and when you find the one(s) that speak to you disregard what others think and go for it.

Get out and play as many guitars as you can, and when you find the one(s) that speak to you disregard what others think and go for it.

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I enjoy doing that anyway!

I paid less than you did for your Aristocrat, and it's got me thinking about learning songs I never considered before.