Need Advice On Finding a F512/F412

etzeppy

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I'm in the market for a nice 12 string. I'm fine with new, used, or vintage. I bought a Taylor 6 string a few years back and really love the neck and playability but have not been impressed with the sound of the Taylor 12 strings I have played. I have not tired the discontinued Jumbo or LKSM. Over the years I have played a number of Guild 12 strings and always loved their sound. The problem is Guilds are really hard to find locally. I live in Dallas, TX. No one stocks high end Guild (or even low end Guild) in this area. I've been to three large guitar shows over the past two years and found 1 and only one candidate. I've resigned myself to the idea that I will have to buy online unless I want to wait years for the right Guild to fall into my lap.

I have a separate debate on the F512 vs F412. What I am really looking for now is advice on what era of Guild best fits my needs. I have smallish hands and tend to favor slimmer necks (i.e. like Taylor). However, my '79 Ibanez 12 string has a pretty fat neck but is still easy to play. In terms of quality, what era of Guild is most recommended (Westerly, Tacoma, New Hartford, etc)? How about playability? I've read both good and bad about New Hartford.

I really wish there was a store with a wall of Guild 12 strings I could play, but I've given up on that dream. I travel for business from time to time. I will be spending a week in the Hartford, CT area next month if there are good store options up there. I already searched the Guild site and didn't find much. Is the New Hartford plant closed yet?

I guess I'm looking for a little advice on how to proceed with my search.

Thanks

Keith
 

geoguy

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Welcome to LTG . . . yes, the New Hartford CT plant is closed, & its replacement in California is not yet up & running.

If you have smallish hands, I suggest staying away from a vintage G312. Mine has a neck that resembles half of a baseball bat. My opinion is that the New Hartford Guilds were among the best that Guild ever offered.

I also have an F412, and it has glorious tone. The jumbo-style body is an armful, but I don't feel that the neck is too bulky.
 

etzeppy

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I played a F412 a few years ago and thought it sounded great but have not be able to try out both a F512 & F412 in the same room. I like the idea of rosewood for fullness but if the F412 is good enough David Gilmour and SRV, it's hard to argue. That maple sure is pretty. I'm really on the fence about which model.
 

Neal

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Welcome!
.
Lots of interest in 12-strings from new members today, it seems.

I don't think you can go wrong with any vintage of F-412 or F-512. All killer. Westerly, Corona, Tacoma, New Hartford. Doesn't seem to matter, the consistent excellence of these higher-end Guilds is proven.

The big change made to the original F-412/F-512 design (introduced in 1968) is that the twin truss rods used historically were replaced with a single rod, assisted by carbon fiber reinforcements, sometime during the run in Tacoma, I think. My '03 F-412 from Corona has two truss rods. As to how this may have affected the neck profile, if at all, someone with greater knowledge than I will need to weigh in.

Neal

Neal
 

Bill Ashton

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Keith, having tried about everything before I sprung for an F512 during the summer of 2013, I would say that a New Hartford-built F412/512 will have the lowest profile neck; that said, the I find the string spacing at the bridge to be a little tighter than the Tacoma-builds, which also BTW have a pretty big neck. The Standard Series G312, although a sortly produced piece in New Hartford, has a pretty big neck, but then...again...string spacing at the bridge seems wider. At least to me.

After I had ordered and bought my 512, I happened upon a GAD-1512 jumbo twelve string. I found it to be almost identical to my F512 and almost instantly began to have buyer's remorse (this was about a month after taking delivery). However as reason took over my brain, I came to understand that I would never have believed it and still always jonzed for a "real" F512.

There are others here that advise you, this is certainly just my perspective. I will say, that Chazmo has an exceptionally nice Tacoma-built F512...but she has a real Louisville Slugger neck! :friendly_wink: Good luck with the chase, it's a lot of fun.
 

Bill Ashton

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Keith, having tried about everything before I sprung for an F512 during the summer of 2013, I would say that a New Hartford-built F412/512 will have the lowest profile neck; that said, the I find the string spacing at the bridge to be a little tighter than the Tacoma-builds, which also BTW have a pretty big neck. The Standard Series G312, although a sortly produced piece in New Hartford, has a pretty big neck, but then...again...string spacing at the bridge seems wider. At least to me.

After I had ordered and bought my 512, I happened upon a GAD-1512 jumbo twelve string. I found it to be almost identical to my F512 and almost instantly began to have buyer's remorse (this was about a month after taking delivery). However as reason took over my brain, I came to understand that I would never have believed it and still always jonzed for a "real" F512.

There are others here that advise you, this is certainly just my perspective. I will say, that Chazmo has an exceptionally nice Tacoma-built F512...but she has a real Louisville Slugger neck! :friendly_wink: Good luck with the chase, it's a lot of fun.
 

twocorgis

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Welcome etzeppy! If you like a smaller neck profile, then you'll definitely prefer a New Hartford model. I love my 2010 F512, and think it's the best 12er I've ever played. The second best was probably the JF65-12 (same as an F412) that I sold to default. You seriously can't go wrong with either of them.
 
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killdeer43

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WELCOME TO LTG!
You've certainly come to the right place to find out all you'll ever need to know about Guild 12 strings, and then some. It's pretty much understood that Guild 12 strings are the best in every category.
Mine is the humble D4-12 but it sounds as sweet as any I've heard. I've had to do some repair work on it so we're bonded for the duration by that shared experience.
Shop around and find one that feels/sounds good to you.

Stick around and break the news when you find THE one! :friendly_wink:

Joe
 

etzeppy

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WELCOME TO LTG!
You've certainly come to the right place to find out all you'll ever need to know about Guild 12 strings, and then some. It's pretty much understood that Guild 12 strings are the best in every category.
Mine is the humble D4-12 but it sounds as sweet as any I've heard. I've had to do some repair work on it so we're bonded for the duration by that shared experience.
Shop around and find one that feels/sounds good to you.

Stick around and break the news when you find THE one! :friendly_wink:

Joe
Thanks Joe. I plan on sticking around. I've been trying to participate in conversation but I think I'm on probation. It seems that my post must be approved before going live. That's fine. Got to keep it clean.....
 

gibsonjunkie

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In the Hartford area there aren't too many Guild dealers. I got mine from Joe's Guitars in Wallingford. http://www.joesguitarsusa.com/ He had limited numbers - at the time all he had was a Standard F-212 - but that was what I wanted. Union Music in Worcester probably has more - about an hour from Hartford. Carl has helped me get three Guild guitars. http://www.unionmusic.com/. Sometimes Spindrift Music in New London has some nice used ones. http://www.spindriftguitars.com/
 

chazmo

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Taylor jumbos are pretty nice. The only one I really didn't like was the all-mahogany 555, which sounded to me like a cardboard box. I have never played an LKSM, though, and have always heard great things about them.

I have an '80s 655 (maple back/sides with Sitka soundboard) which has a really slim neck and is incredibly easy to play. This guitar needed a neck reset when I got it, but that is pretty easy on a Taylor, even a pre-NT neck guitar (which is still a bolt-on). My luthier did it without steaming off the fingerboard extension. He also made a per-string-compensated saddle for it, and it really is well-intonated now.

Now, Guilds... It's true; when you're choosing between and F-412 and F-512 you simply cannot go wrong. You can add to that the Westerly JF-65-12 and JF-55-12 models as well as even the low-bling JF-30-12. The late-model F-412 from New Hartford, BTW, was probably the best F-412 model I've ever played. Incredibly sweet guitars, as is their 6-string twin F-50. But rosewood, ah rosewood... An F-512 will rock your world, plain and simple. It's the king in my book. I've never met another 12-string that I enjoy playing and listening to more. I'd say the same thing about the F-50R 6-string brother.

Just know that the jumbo body shape I've been talking about here is not for everyone. It doesn't sit too well in the lap and is definitely not comfortable for everyone. I usually sit on a stool when I play mine. But if you want those "Maxell moments" that blow your hair back, you need one. ;)
 

crank

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I picked up a 2013 New Hartford F-412 last year. Mine is the arched back maple model and I love it. I tried both the rosewood and the maple 412's and came out liking the sound of maple better. I find the neck easier to play than I thought it would be
 

etzeppy

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You guys are terrible influences over here. I've been on the hunt for a Guild 12 string for at least 18 months. I joined LTG yesterday and just closed a deal on a New Hartford F-512. It's a factory B-stock but still new with Warranty. There is a cosmetic blemish near the nut. I think I got a killer deal at under $2K. I took a leap of faith and ordered from out of state. The dealer has free return shipping if I'm unhappy.
 

12 string

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You guys are terrible influences over here. I've been on the hunt for a Guild 12 string for at least 18 months. I joined LTG yesterday and just closed a deal on a New Hartford F-512. It's a factory B-stock but still new with Warranty. There is a cosmetic blemish near the nut. I think I got a killer deal at under $2K. I took a leap of faith and ordered from out of state. The dealer has free return shipping if I'm unhappy.

Well done!

' Strang
 

Neal

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Oh, we're just getting started...pretty soon you will be tripping over guitar cases!

What happens is that your curiosity gets the best of you. You play the F-512 for a while, love it, and wonder...what else did Guild make that is this cool?

Turns out, the answer is "lots of stuff". I was a certified Guild dreadnought snob when I joined. Owned four nice ones. Then got the itch for an F-body. Next think I knew, I had a closet full of them...F-30, F-47R, F-50, F-50R, F-412. Then got the itch for an Orpheum. This is how the disease progresses.

At some point, you learn exactly what you like, what you want to keep, and you sell a few to other LTG addicts. So, it's all good!

Neal
 

etzeppy

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Oh, we're just getting started...pretty soon you will be tripping over guitar cases!

What happens is that your curiosity gets the best of you. You play the F-512 for a while, love it, and wonder...what else did Guild make that is this cool?

Turns out, the answer is "lots of stuff". I was a certified Guild dreadnought snob when I joined. Owned four nice ones. Then got the itch for an F-body. Next think I knew, I had a closet full of them...F-30, F-47R, F-50, F-50R, F-412. Then got the itch for an Orpheum. This is how the disease progresses.

At some point, you learn exactly what you like, what you want to keep, and you sell a few to other LTG addicts. So, it's all good!

Neal
You should see the trouble I get into over at MyLesPaul.com:adoration: This should be fun. In all seriousness, I've been chasing that Guild 12 string sound for decades. I don't know what took me so long. I distinctly remember that the first 12 string I ever played was Guild jumbo of some sort back in the 90's. It was at a music store and priced at around $1K. I was blown away then. Over the years I would periodically play one and was always taken with the sound. But I never pulled the trigger on one. I've had a Yamaha 12 string from ten years of so (I previously called it Ibanez but was confused). I love 12 strings but that Yamaha was always missing something. It was time to go for the real deal. Very excited.....
 
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