Guild Acoustic Bass Sighting - John Lodge

jthrel

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Nice black Guild Acoustic Bass with a cutaway featured on this older (VHS quality) clip. Skip to 2:30 for a performance of The Actor with John Lodge & Justin Hayward. John effectively uses the cutaway to play on the higher frets.

 

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Pretty much has to be a B4 in black.

An example from 1994.

b4ce_bass_front_b2.jpg
 

SFIV1967

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fronobulax

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Right, seems to be a Guild B4E :

As the owner of one I have noted that Guild itself was extremely inconsistent in what they called the bass in the picture. I have seen it called B4, B4E, and B4CE and I have seen hyphens between the B and 4 and the 4 and whatever follows. The problem seems to be that they made exactly one model, a cutaway with electronics and the only variation was the finish and sometimes they went simple because there was only one B4 and sometimes they were precise (and redundant for the knowledgeable) and said B4CE.
 

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Hi Ralf,

Thanks for the great research on the John's guitars. John is an accomplished player of both Bass and 6/12 Guitar. I have never seen John play his acoustic bass during a full-on Moody Blues show - but I'm sure it has happened. When touring with the Moodies, John used to "borrow" one of Justin Hayward's guitars for a song or two if the setlist allowed. A picture of the guitar rack from their 2014 Summer/Fall USA tour is provided below which includes the black JF-30 and the Natural JF-30-12. I've seen John perform with a 6/12 string a lot less since two members of the touring band (Julie Ragins and Norda Mullen) started providing guitar fills (respectively the Epiphone and Ovation at the left of the rack). John has his primary and a backup Fender electric bass in the rack. Justin Hayward plays everything else in the rack at various times in the concert with the exception of the amberburst Gibson 335 (a backup for his go-to cherry 335).

MoodiesGuitarscrop_zpse34daed2.jpg




Al
 

jthrel

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As the owner of one I have noted that Guild itself was extremely inconsistent in what they called the bass in the picture. I have seen it called B4, B4E, and B4CE and I have seen hyphens between the B and 4 and the 4 and whatever follows. The problem seems to be that they made exactly one model, a cutaway with electronics and the only variation was the finish and sometimes they went simple because there was only one B4 and sometimes they were precise (and redundant for the knowledgeable) and said B4CE.


Hi Frono,

Thanks for the ID on John Lodge's Acoustic Bass. I'm curious about acoustic bass guitars - of course, Guild in particular. The Guild B4CE seems small bodied while the Guild B-30 looks more like an F-size guitar. What is your take on Guild acoustic Bass-es - both amplified and non-amplified - when joined/competing with other players on 6/12 string acoustic instruments.

Al
 

SFIV1967

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What is your take on Guild acoustic Basses - both amplified and non-amplified - when joined/competing with other players on 6/12 string acoustic instruments.
I am not a bass player but here are a few videos with a Guild acoustic bass in action, even if it is hard for me to hear the bass clearly in the mix. But it was the first time I noticed the big Guild acoustic basses in the past.

Metallica's former bass player Jason Newsted with a Guild B-500CE :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50kqvfUtyvk (minutes 1:44-1:58,...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg-3hE2GmNI (minutes 3:52-4:06,...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wba_Sn9KkbU (minutes1:07, 2:25, 5:00, 5:13, 5:44,...)

I really don't remember which other famous artists played Guild acoustic basses, I am sure one of our bass players will help me out here.

Ralf
 

fronobulax

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Hi Frono,

Thanks for the ID on John Lodge's Acoustic Bass. I'm curious about acoustic bass guitars - of course, Guild in particular. The Guild B4CE seems small bodied while the Guild B-30 looks more like an F-size guitar. What is your take on Guild acoustic Bass-es - both amplified and non-amplified - when joined/competing with other players on 6/12 string acoustic instruments.

Al

I've pontificated on this before but I never found a soapbox that I couldn't get to hold my weight.

I own a B4CE and a B50. I played a prototype B54 for about 10 minutes in a solo/noodling situation. The B30 is essentially a B50 slightly reduced in size. I've also played a relatively rare acoustic bass from Kurt's collection - B500 perhaps?

Everything else is seriously smaller and more manageable than the B50. I have been telling people that the B4CE accompanying a D25, both acoustic, could be heard at about 5 feet from the instrument in a living room setting. The B50 in the same setting can still be heard about 10 feet away. I also can hear myself better on the B50. If the goal is acoustic only and maximum projection then the B50 is the only candidate and even then is going to be overpowered if there are enough other instruments.

I've played the B50 in a quartet with a F30 and two non-Guilds. The other players can hear me just fine. Our leader has elected to mike the quartet for projection and an omnidirectional mike aimed at another instrument picks up enough of the B50 that amplifying it separately has never been considered.

Electrically I have a post-factory PU in the B50. It makes the acoustic, phosphor bronze sound louder and is a PITA to manage feedback. The B4CE with the factory Fishman is perhaps the most versatile tone machine in my stable. It can't do everything but I can get three or four distinct tones out of it as opposed to one or two from the other basses.

Primarily because of ergonomics and the social aspect of things, if I can't use an amp I bring the B50 and hope. But if I can use an amp, I am much more likely to bring a Starfire than the B50.

Did I come close to your question?
 

fronobulax

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I am not a bass player but here are a few videos with a Guild acoustic bass in action, even if it is hard for me to hear the bass clearly in the mix. But it was the first time I noticed the big Guild acoustic basses in the past.

Metallica's former bass player Jason Newsted with a Guild B-500CE :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50kqvfUtyvk (minutes 1:44-1:58,...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg-3hE2GmNI (minutes 3:52-4:06,...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wba_Sn9KkbU (minutes1:07, 2:25, 5:00, 5:13, 5:44,...)

I really don't remember which other famous artists played Guild acoustic basses, I am sure one of our bass players will help me out here.

Ralf

I can't search YouTube at the moment but there is a clip of Hot Tuna doing an acoustic set that has Jack Casady playing a B50. "99 Year Blues" is one number and I'm guessing it is a 1908's performance. I think I have seen more clips with B4CEs than any other Guild acoustic but that is anecdotal, not statistical.
 

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jthrel

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Everything else is seriously smaller and more manageable than the B50. I have been telling people that the B4CE accompanying a D25, both acoustic, could be heard at about 5 feet from the instrument in a living room setting. The B50 in the same setting can still be heard about 10 feet away. I also can hear myself better on the B50. If the goal is acoustic only and maximum projection then the B50 is the only candidate and even then is going to be overpowered if there are enough other instruments.

For the past year, most of my playing time has been focused on acoustic guitar. When playing with a pianist, I drift towards plucking some bass lines on my 6/12. It might be time to experiment with a real bass. If the un-amplified B50 can project sufficiently in a small venue, that might be the way to go. I would be nice to try both the B30 and B50 before throwing cash on the table - recognizing that the likelihood of finding both instruments in the same place has higher odds than PowerBall.:tongue-new:


Electrically I have a post-factory PU in the B50. It makes the acoustic, phosphor bronze sound louder and is a PITA to manage feedback. The B4CE with the factory Fishman is perhaps the most versatile tone machine in my stable. It can't do everything but I can get three or four distinct tones out of it as opposed to one or two from the other basses.

I do occasionally play out in larger venues, potentially requiring a PU. While sifting through YouTube for acoustic bass, I located a demo (of a Guild B-30) that recommended the K&K Pure Bass system - seems logical given the split saddle. What PU are you using on your B50 (acknowledging the PITA feedback issue) and would you hazard a recommendation?

Al
 

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Ah! That 18" body and 30 3/4" scale Guild B-50 is one big bass! And nothing beats it together with a Guild Jumbo 12 string!




And another one from a different concert:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34gkfXyvlno

Ralf



Thanks Ralf - great clips. YES, that is a seriously huge bass.:frog::frog: I will have to assess my playing ergonomics on that monster before making a purchase.
 

jthrel

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I've pontificated on this before but I never found a soapbox that I couldn't get to hold my weight.

Did I come close to your question?

I have never found your pontificating objectionable nor do you use your soapbox as bully pulpit. On target and reasonable.

As with all good answers, more questions are generated....

Keep on Guild-ing,

Al
 
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