12 stringing in your golden years

Wow! I've been seriously challenged playing 12 string since entering my 60's. I'm a right handed player. Actually its the left hand's thumb joints that gets as sore as can be and there is a loss of strength making bar cords a major challenge. I know we tend to use bar chords a bit less in 12 string, but I'm doing it less and less as time goes on. Even bar chords aside, 12 string just works that left hand in major ways.

Today I was playing "Hotel California" and hissing through the last verse. Ouch! No medical concerns about the left hand. No documented arthritis or fibromyalgia.

My 12 is an Ovation Legend, made in New Hartford. Easy to play for a 12 string. I'm wondering if it'd be easier with a Guild F512 or 412. But I think its more of an aging issue than one related to the particular guitar

No such problems with 6 string.

I'd love to hear insights from others playing 12 string. What adaptations have you made? Are there strengthening routines you go through? What have you noticed as you gracefully move forward into your golden years?

Rick

Guild D55
Ovation 6756lx Legend 12

I've been playing 12 string for 50 years, sometimes only a 12. In the last few years, I've gone from using .012 to .011 and now to .010. I've also made sure that both of my 12s are set up well so they fret as easily as a 12 can. I haven't played an Ovation 12 in years, but I doubt there'd be much difference with a Guild, probably just age catching up. Have you tried using silk and steel strings? They're usually a little easier to fret.
Brad

Thanks Brad. I'm going to experiment with string gauges. Seems an obvious thing to try. And I remember that medium gauges on my 6 require some more effort.

Thanks again.

Rick

Hello Rick.

Your Ovation Legend is a fine 12 string. I (as well as others, here) may very well prefer the *sound* of a Guild F-412 or F-512, but the playability is going to be determined by the setup of the instrument.

There can be 100 lbs difference in string tension between a 6 and 12 string acoustic guitar. It takes significantly more strength to depress / fret notes on a 12 string, when compared to a six string. So it is not surprising that you are experiencing frustration when pressing down on those strings. That said, there *are* things you can do to alleviate the struggle:

Use light, light, light strings (smaller diameter = less tension)

Lower the action (lowest possible nut and saddle heights without string buzzing - considering your playing style)

Tune down one step and play with a capo, when desired (lower tuning = less tension).

Build left hand strength with exercises (playing a 12 string frequently, pushing through the pain, is one way. Squeezing a rubber ball during the day is another.)

I believe in adding MSM (remember DMSO?) to the diet, just to make sure joint pain isn't in the way

There are things I used to do on guitar that I just can't do anymore due to the arthritis. But new and satisfying things are still emerging from my guitars. What we must do as we age is learn how to do more with less.

' Strang

I'm not a strummer, so I almost never hit all twelve strings. In fact, I only use about a dozen chord forms, and the only barre I regularly use is the "E" shape. Otherwise, I employ mostly three-finger chords up and down the neck with melody/harmony notes on the bass pairs thrown in at (usually inappropriate) intervals. Happily the world's citizenry-at-large knows even less about guitar playing than I do, so I've managed to convince them that I know what I'm doing. Think of playing the 12-string less as an art form, more as a con job.

To add my 2 pence, while I tried desperately to love the F212XL, I found the sound fantastic and the neck unplayable. The NH F512 (and maybe the 412) was slimmer and very playable...and I tried Taylors, Martins and Yamaha's...the GAD1512 is virtually identical to the F512 and had I played one first might have bought one! Find the NH F512 to be a great flatpicker, but not so much a fingerpicker. Chazmo's Tacoma-build F512 is a great fingerpicker, but has a huge neck...so I can see why he likes his (first of regular production) F212XL...Charlea beat me to a "best-buy" F312-Standard, but after trying one at LMG IV, very sadly, am glad he did! Found that neck also very large.

Just this 'geezer's biased opinion...

I find my NH F512 much easier to play than the F212XL I'd had since 1973. Since it sounded better too, I didn't wring my hands much about recently selling the 212 for 2.5X what I originally paid for it. Maybe I'm just medically lucky, but for me at least a 12 string isn't any harder to play now than it was when I got that first one. I've always used extra light strings (11-47) and in the old days tuned down a full step though now it is a half step.

The suggestion to try silk and steel strings is a good one. They are easier to play and sound quite good.

charliea said:

I'm not a strummer, so I almost never hit all twelve strings. In fact, I only use about a dozen chord forms, and the only barre I regularly use is the "E" shape. Otherwise, I employ mostly three-finger chords up and down the neck with melody/harmony notes on the bass pairs thrown in at (usually inappropriate) intervals. Happily the world's citizenry-at-large knows even less about guitar playing than I do, so I've managed to convince them that I know what I'm doing. Think of playing the 12-string less as an art form, more as a con job.

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"Con job", yes I was introduced at a live venue when playing the Guild F512. She pointed out to the crowd just how "difficult" a 12 string was to play. I got far more credit than I deserved that time. I just loved to go into some lead licks, since it is all so difficult to do you know.

I actually find the F512 (or any F412), and my identical Blueridge 12 practice guitar the most comfortable to play now that I'm used to it. I like the full sound and also the wider neck for my fretting hand.

Maybe I am the only one here with this advice, but I practice certain things for hours to build up my hands, and to play it all better. Many years ago I would do the same thing to get some drum licks worked out (for many hours). I'm not certain that this is the best advice, but it worked for me. For all those hours on drumming practice the payback was about $165 a week in the 1970's. This was part time work after my day job, and lasted a few years. But for guitar the payback is not necessarily monetary in nature.

That was then, but this is now. Enjoy your practice time,
Craig

I still find my JF30-12 easier to fret/play than most six-strings; one heckuva guitar with an awesome setup accomplished six years ago. Switched to silk & steel strings a few months ago and its now even more impressive. And at just 66, I haven't hit my golden years yet :numbness:

About growing older......“The rock's easy, but the roll is another thing...” Keith Richards

Keep on keepin' on, Rick. Seems like there is some great advice presented here. I would never have thought of gauge of the strings would make such a difference. But, logically, it should. Good to know!

ladytexan said:

About growing older......“The rock's easy, but the roll is another thing...” Keith Richards....

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Nice quote, fits in with my way of looking at music. I feel that the thing that differentiates rock from rock 'n' roll is the roll, or, imho, the influence of swing on r 'n r that is missing in rock. Just my 2¢.
Brad

Check out my '71 F-312NT in FS/FT. It plays effortlessly!

Bill

I just purchased a Guild F512 with the electronics - it arrives on Tuesday. Yesterday I purchased a Taylor 856ce, but was second guessing it after all I've read online the past 2 weeks. I sold my Martin 6 string, G-D16 - missed having a 12 string and at 60, think I'm due! So - my hands are small and I hope the Guild has less of a reach than the Taylor. This way I can try both as it's impossible to find retailers that carry both of these, let alone anyone who carries the Guild F512.

I love the antique burst and the Guild 512 not being a cut away, as I won't use it that way; I'm 90% a "strummer." So - question is - now I'm researching straps, capos, and stands....from what I've read the locking strap? I don't think I'll like playing with the Keyser since I use a capo quite often and need the ease of going from one capo to the next - the Planet Waves looks good, but not sure...I've also read about being careful with the stand due to the finish on the Guild....

One last question - never been "electronic" - what's involved in plugging into the existing sound - the other guitarist uses a regular plug into the floor -

Appreciate and value all advice - been a songleader for 45 years and very excited to (hopefully) own a Guild! Thanks!

Welcome to LTG, Mib18.

I play seated & don't presently have a 12-string capo, so I'm not much use to you.

RE: your colleague using "a regular plug into the floor", do you mean that he plugs into a PA system? I think your F512 should use a standard guitar cable that would go into an amplifier.

Hopefully my post will get your query bumped to the top, where someone more-knowledgeable can assist you!

I use the Planet Waves NS and it's great. Does the job, very light weight, and visually unobtrusive. Plus, they don't cost much. Guild guitars have a lacquer finish which might react with the rubber on your stand, or not. As long as you don't leave it on the stand more than a few hours at a time, there should be no problem, but I'd store the guitar where it belongs, in its case. Taylor uses a plastic (er, poly) finish which is probably resistant to everything except post-apocalypse cockroaches, but it just ain't lacquer. How your guitar sounds when amplified is a matter of taste. You can plug the DTAR right into most any amp, and it'll do fine. If you're flat picking or using bare fingers, I imagine you'll like it. I use metal finger picks and can't stand the clash of picks against string pairs that I hear through amps, so I use a Fishman Aura imaging preamp to tune it out. That's just me, though. YMMV.

Mib18 said:

...I've also read about being careful with the stand due to the finish on the Guild...

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Hercules is one brand that is safe for nitrocellulose lacquer. http://www.herculesstands.com/faq.html
http://www.herculesstands.com/guitars/GS412B.html
Ralf

I tell ya it is really odd this be the first bog / yours I read...I started just using Dr. Sheffield's Arthritis and muscle cream just to relieve tingles-pain in my finger tips re: fretboard of course. I do on occassion have a shooting hand pain or joint discomfort, rare. The stuff works and pretty fast. I use a lot of hand cream too on the tips so the callous doesn't get all hard and tend to separate falling off eventually-or shed. Try the dollar store should be cheap. My O/L had it she always has virtually anything I can think of. So, for now I stick with what is working. I was going to buy some Blue Emu until I got sticker shock and said never mind, ya-no, lol ! Some say squeeze a tennis ball to strengthen while you watch TV. I personally am not fond of their feel exactly. Pink or ble racket balls are just right....