Is it prudent to rebuild vintage tuners

Islandtexan

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I am the proud new owner of a 1967 D-40. I have been lusting for one of these for the longest and just got one in great condition, case and all from the first owner. However, I have found that a couple of the tuners are very slack. You can turn the tuning knobs about an eighth of a turn before the string winds. I am presuming this is going to make this guitar hard to keep in tune. I am pretty handy and was ready to pull them off and see if I could 'rebuild' them when I thought perhaps I should first ask you experienced owners for advice. The tuners on the guitar are the closed type. I have not yet pulled one off, so I do not know how accessible the gears are. Perhaps the system is all closed and I'm going to screw up things by risking loosening the 'bite' of those two little Phillips wood screws on the back of each tuner. On the other hand, maybe pulling these tuners off will afford me a chance to blow gunk out and lubricate or tighten things up. To be clear, I want this guitar to stay totally original, so if messing with those tuners is going to jeopardize the value, I'm not about to pull them off. On the other hand, I have every intention of playing it, so I am wanting its performance to be as good as possible.

When I got this guitar, it had been in a closet for forty years. The strings had spontaneously broken. So my first step was to put a set of strings on just to see how the thing was set up. Well, it is wonderful. Perfect intonation and string height just right for me. The neck is true. The frets could maybe use a little dressing, but not much. The D'Addaario strings I put on to check things out were some I had laying around. They are way too light, so off they come -- just as soon as somebody tells me whether to also pull off those tuners before I put on a set of Elixir Polywebs.

The finish looks like it could be nitrocellulose, but I'm not certain. I welcome insight from any of you who are as lucky as I and have one of these fine old instruments. Thanks in advance!
 

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Welcome to the nuthouse, first of all! Not sure which tuners you have - could you post a pic? They have to be hosted elsewhere, then linked to using the picture icon on the editor toolbar.

Are the buttons held on with screws? You can adjust the tension by tightening them.
 

Chaz

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I don't think there is really any practical way to rebuild (at least most) sealed-type tuners to reduce slack; I took some Schaller's apart to lubricate them because they were dried out and sticky/very hard to turn, but if they feel smooth and turn easy you probably don't really need to do anything (maybe a drop or two of oil if there's a decent spot to get some in?). So long as you are tuning up to the note like you are supposed to, I don't think you'll have any trouble with keeping it in tune. Most problems with tuning IMO/IME stem from things like the strings binding in the nut slots, anyway.

Also, welcome to the forum, and I'll second that it would be neat to see some pictures.
 

SFIV1967

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Welcome to LTG! If your D-40 is from 1967 the serial number range would be between AJ1137 and AJ2244.
Are those the type of tuners you have on your D-40? : http://cdn1.gbase.com/usercontent/gear/3215863/p4_ux240i53i_so.jpg
That's how they look under the cover (held by the one screw): http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=106557&d=1378768405
A bit of "Tri-Flow Superior Lubricant" or "Finish Line Dry Teflon Bike Lube"does a good job to get them in good working order again.
But let us first know what tuners you have.
And yes, the lacquer of the Guild guitars is nitrocellulose.
Ralf
 

AcornHouse

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Most vintage tuners, even sealed ones, can be serviced. Generally they can do with a good cleaning and lubricating. Naphtha is a good cleaner for getting the accumulated crud out, then tri-flow for lubing. (It's a bike chain lube that StewMac sells in a needle dispenser small bottle.)
If you go to the Stewmac site, and look at the Trade Secrets link (towards the bottom of the menu on the left), you will find at least one dedicated to cleaning tuners.
EDIT: Here's the video. http://www.stewmac.com/tsarchive/ts0213.html
 
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hansmoust

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I am the proud new owner of a 1967 D-40. I have been lusting for one of these for the longest and just got one in great condition, case and all from the first owner. However, I have found that a couple of the tuners are very slack. You can turn the tuning knobs about an eighth of a turn before the string winds. I am presuming this is going to make this guitar hard to keep in tune. I am pretty handy and was ready to pull them off and see if I could 'rebuild' them when I thought perhaps I should first ask you experienced owners for advice. The tuners on the guitar are the closed type. I have not yet pulled one off, so I do not know how accessible the gears are. Perhaps the system is all closed and I'm going to screw up things by risking loosening the 'bite' of those two little Phillips wood screws on the back of each tuner. On the other hand, maybe pulling these tuners off will afford me a chance to blow gunk out and lubricate or tighten things up. To be clear, I want this guitar to stay totally original, so if messing with those tuners is going to jeopardize the value, I'm not about to pull them off. On the other hand, I have every intention of playing it, so I am wanting its performance to be as good as possible.

Hello Islandtexan,

Welcome! If you dated the guitar correctly, then the tuners on your guitar should be the ones pictured in this photo:

JapaneseHeads_1.jpg


These were made in Japan and though they were reasonable tuners at the time, they are not all that great quality. Guild only used them for a relatively short period. I have worked on these, but the parts that wear out, basically the gears, were hard to find. Even though I was able to make them work I believe it was not really worth the trouble and I would advise you to see if they would work well enough for you. If they don't just replace them with something that would be period correct or something that Guild would have used as an upgrade, like Grover RotoMatics.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

Islandtexan

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Thanks so much for the quick replies. And yes, Hans, those are my tuners. By the way, my copy of your book should arrive in the mail today according to Amazon. I will try to get around to posting pictures in the next few days, time permitting. The suggestions so far are persuading me to pull these tuners off and see what I can accomplish. As a cycler, I already have Tri-Lube around. For now, this guitar and I are still in the get-acquainted mode. As I mentioned, I have yet to be certain which strings will work best. I also want to take a closer look at this saddle which doesn't seem to be either bone or the usual plastic one sees. Oh, one more thing -- inside there are several spots that look like where perhaps glue has run. They are white and drip-looking. I know the first and only other owner, and I know no-one has ever done a repair on it. Could it be that these were simply acceptable in that era of lutherie or could these have been the result of some humidity insult along the way? The guitar is totally sound, so there's no indication of deterioration of any of the bonding. Just wondering. Thanks again for the cordial welcome.

Clif
 
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While it might be possible to rehabilitate the original tuners, I would not hesitate to replace them (were it mine) if what I wanted was a playable guitar. I'd just keep the originals in a bag or whatever, in case the next owner (or my heirs) might want them as part of the instrument's history. It might even be possible to find replacements that mount in the old screw holes, so the wood remains in its factory condition. But factory guitars are not Renaissance paintings, and they all require replacement parts eventually. I have a 1920 Martin with its original finish, a never-reset neck, and a replacement bridge and saddle. Without those last two (because the original bridge split), it would not be playable. And it was made to play, not to serve as a museum piece. (That said, I wish I'd asked Charlie Hoffmann to save the originals, just as fetish items.)
 
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